If you had a magic wand and could add three things, what would it be?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

...

---

This is kind of a fun idea for a thread. :)

1) A big and mysterious overworld again. Watching stuff on 1.0, I think a thing it did do well was have a sense of mystery and exploration, and the music and environment felt more mysterious. Going to a new continent, they could very well do this. It would also be neat to revisit some existing stuff that we still don't have from 1.X, like West Shroud, the other Coerthas highland/lowland areas, and Gelmorra. Things to do in the overworld. FATEs exist but are pretty limited. Stuff like Eureka and Bozja that have more reasons to do them, more staying power, and are things people can work out for a while would be good ideas.

2) More midcore content in general. They make lots of stuff for super-chill RP stuff, which is good, and they make plenty of stuff for the top end hardcore people, which is fine, but they tend to leave out the middle. Worse, over time, they take the stuff that as more midcore like Extremes and make it more like hardcore Savages, and keep releasing new and more stuff for hardcores, like Criterion Savage, while leaving the midcore with very little. Exploration Zone like Bozja/Eureka is a must here, especially with the longer patch cycles that have more deadtime people need things they can work on once they've eaten through the other stuff in the patch.

3) A shift in encounter design away from twitch reflexes and "solving the puzzle" and more to encounters that people can approach in different ways and that prize strategy as much or more than twitch ARPG "TEST OF YOUR REFLEXES" silliness. This would also mean stuff like dungeons being more chill than hard wall to walls. Let people actually talk and stuff as they go (though that's partly on the community, it's partly on dungeon design). Criterion is a step in the right direction, but it's mostly replacing one hallway with a choice of three hallways, not tackling the problem which is THE HALLWAYS. This would also allow things like Healers being able to heal more, less strict enrage timers that train people to prize damage over anything else, and less Job homogenization/more diversity in kits and playstyles. The 2 min meta + ARPG dance-dance-test-of-your-reflexes encounter design really precludes a lot of design space, forces stuff like nukespam without alternatives (e.g. all four healers having the exact same rotation), and makes everything...very samey.

EDIT:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

TBH... I don't think the jobs got butchered for casuals. I think they got butchered for the hardcore elitists that insist the content is unbeatable unless a specific meta party setup is used.

---

Definitely agree. Homgenization is mostly based around making everything "balanced" because the hardcores decided if something was doing 2% less damage, it was preventing week 1 clears, and so blacklisted from their parties. (The 4.2 P8S boss having 1% too much health making Enrage debatably impossible for the anti-meta comp didn't help, either). This then spreads to the rest of the playerbase and the Devs have people playing those Jobs upset they can't get into any parties.

Casuals aren't the ones asking for the changes. "making things easier" doesn't mean "...for casuals", as hardcore players also often want things to be easier in the sense that easier means more reliable, which is good for clearing difficult content.

The changes were absolutely made either for the hardcore players or to curtail their actions, neither of which is for casuals.

EDIT2: to try and not derail the thread with a bunch of posts:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The "hardcore elitists" who frequently exceed enrage checks by nearly a third of the necessary party dps and tend to care more about the quality of the player than the job since putting out 80% of what's possible on "the best" job in a given role still frequently won't get you to even 90% of the worst in that role? The ones asking for complexity back as not to be bored?

Those "hardcore elitists"?

Somehow not at all the "we might struggle to even put out two-thirds of what our jobs are capable of, so we'd better restrict PF to just whatever puts out the most at the least risk" PuG PF leaders, or those who didn't engage with the simplified-away components to begin with and therefore won't miss what they never used anyways?

---

I mean, yes?

Those are the same people benching RDM because it "works harder than SMN but doesn't output more damage" and insisting that even if RDM did output the same damage, it would still be benched because SMN is easier, and demanding that SMN do less damage and RDM do more.

Casuals aren't doing that - they don't run parsers and don't care. In casual content, both SMN and RDM are wildly successful and both very highly played.
Midcore aren't doing that - they appreciate RDM's Raise utility a ton and value it much higher than the hardcore.

Only the hardcore are making those arguments and even advocating for Raises to be removed from SMN and RDM "so they can be properly balanced against BLM and the Melee".

So yes, THOSE "hardcore elitists" would be correct.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

TBH... I don't think the jobs got butchered for casuals. I think they got butchered for the hardcore elitists that insist the content is unbeatable unless a specific meta party setup is used.

---

The "hardcore elitists" who frequently exceed enrage checks by nearly a third of the necessary party dps and tend to care more about the quality of the player than the job since putting out 80% of what's possible on "the best" job in a given role still frequently won't get you to even 90% of the worst in that role? The ones asking for complexity back as not to be bored?

Those "hardcore elitists"?

Somehow not at all the "we might struggle to even put out two-thirds of what our jobs are capable of, so we'd better restrict PF to just whatever puts out the most at the least risk" PuG PF leaders, or those who didn't engage with the simplified-away components to begin with and therefore won't miss what they never used anyways?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renathras

Those are the same people benching RDM because it "works harder than SMN but doesn't output more damage" and insisting that even if RDM did output the same damage, it would still be benched because SMN is easier, and demanding that SMN do less damage and RDM do more.

---

They're literally not the ones benching RDM, or anyone else. They already put out way tf more damage than is necessary to clear Savage even if they stacked 2 WHMs, 2 PLDs, and 4 DNC. To those actually optimizing their jobs, this is a non-issue.

Quote:

---

Only the hardcore are making those arguments and even advocating for Raises to be removed from SMN and RDM "so they can be properly balanced against BLM and the Melee".

---

No, the one's complaining about feeling overtaxed for Verraise and preferring a balancing scheme for it that isn't based on somehow meeting Enrage despite having Verraised as much as they possibly can... are the RDMs being blocked from parties on the basis that their damage isn't reliable enough, which the devs in turn tell them is because they have Verraise, which --in the parties that do this denying-- can't even net a clear because the party does so little damage that the Weakness debuffs even after Verraise sees use is still enough to wipe them to enrage.

Quote:

---

Casuals aren't the ones asking for the changes. "making things easier" doesn't mean "...for casuals", as hardcore players also often want things to be easier in the sense that easier means more reliable, which is good for clearing difficult content.

---

By all means, find me the "hardcore" player asking for a circular Overpower, no Kaiten, Summoner's simplifications, Bard's iconic components being stripped away, etc., etc.

I've seen here and on Reddit Bards who can't even be bothered to hit Refulgent Arrow who were complaining that their Soul Voice depended on DoT uptime. I can find you many saying that pre-EW Summoner was unbearably hard. I can find many saying that it was just too hard to aim their conal AoEs.

But a "hardcore" player? None of those things were remotely relevant to them. If Kaiten had been left to "hardcore" players' preferences, at most it would have changed from +50% damage to "Guarantees a Critical Hit, with increased damage based on Critical Hit chance," with none of its massive slew of trickle-down effects. They were not the target of those changes, nor any other gameplay simplification.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

Figured this may be a fun thread.

1) Mythic + Content with similar rewards to savage raids.

2) Smoking emote, one smoke version and one bubble.

3) 8 v 8 v 8 Frontlines with the ability to queue with friends.

You can either choose to explain why you choose your three or not. Just have fun with it go crazy.

---

A normal housing where everyone has a chance to to participate in this endgame activity... 3x

1) The ability to see friends log in and log off from cross-world and normal linkshells. They been a lot more important because of DC travel.
+ Update the friend list in general. Blacklist still allows for stalking behavior to thrive, and DC travel has made this a lot worse...

1) GORGEOUS gear design like in Tera + yes with HIGH HEELS
2) Rift online style housing/dimensions including UI/ability to build whatever I want/HUGE zoneS to own and decorate
3) Unlinking forced MSQ to progression

1. Glamour overhaul including role-unlocked glamours and a glamour log.

2. Extremely rare RNG cosmetic drops introduced into all facets of the game - FATEs, Savage, Dungeons, Alliance... Think of the Heavenly Onyx Cloud Serpent from WoW. Give people something to grind for.

3. Account-wide achievements, glamours, mounts, etc. I don't even care if we have to relevel and regear.

1. Roleplaying choices where it doesn't feel like I'm screaming into the void and getting ignored by the story just bulldozing along.
2. Higher skill ceiling across all classes, healers need more dps options for downtime imo (which is why AST is my fave healer, more plates to spin)
3. Greater reliance and integration of player interaction beyond DF. Make crafted gear matter aside form food/tinctures. Something like SWG where dancers/entertainers and medics could pre-buff you!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

They're literally not the ones benching RDM, or anyone else. They already put out way tf more damage than is necessary to clear Savage even if they stacked 2 WHMs, 2 PLDs, and 4 DNC. To those actually optimizing their jobs, this is a non-issue.

---

Not to detail the thread, but you're incorrect.

Indeed, didn't we HAVE a discussion where you were the one arguing that RDM was being benched in hardcore content (thus by hardcore players) because it wasn't doing more damage and those players were swapping to either BLM (if they wanted more damage) or SMN (if they wanted less effort)? There are hardcores ALL THE TIME asking for RDM and SMN to not get raise taxes anymore.

Those aren't casual players.

Therefore, such changes (and arguments) are due to hardcore players. They're also the people insisting that RDM and SMN need to lose their raises to get more damage and be balanced "properly" as DPS. Casuals aren't making that argument because Casuals like raises and Job diversity. Hardcore players like gameplay mechanic (read: rotation) diversity, as long as they're all hard and as long as they all end up doing roughly comparable damage for comparable effort. They don't like things like raises that are actual diversity because those incur damage penalties.

.

And at the end, you just moved the goalposts. There were hardcore players asking why WAR had a different shape AOE than the other Tanks (granted, most were complaining why the -2 was a circle instead of a cone). There were players doing high end content (not casuals) complaining about SMN being convoluted and clunky. So yes, "hardcore" players were asking for some of those things. Of course, you also get the things no one at all - hardcore or casual - was asking for, that weren't done for hardcores OR for casuals, instead being done for the Devs to make their balancing job easier (that's the reason for stuff like Kaiten).

But a "casual" player? None of those things were remotely relevant to them, either.

So the changes we get are generally because of hardcores complaining and/or midcores complaining. Most changes due to casuals aren't combat related, they're things like glamour or emotes.

1) Exploratory zone content like Bozja
2) Fully voiced cutscenes for all cutscenes
3) Better gearing options and a more meaningful relic weapon.