Revelations from Patch 6.2: Buried Memories

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about those statues. I'm very curious to learn more about what they represent and why the voidsents have made them since I think it's unlikely that they were made back in the day (Who's in the right mind would construct hundreds of giant statues?)
Also, it seems there's a big room down the stairs but the way is blocked by the statues. I'm kind of disappointed none of the characters have ever paid it any attention even in trust mode but I hope it might one day be expanded upon.

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It's an interesting puzzle that has been sort of answered, but in a way that just raises even more questions.

According to Zero, the entire castle of Troia was created by its former mistress Beatrice, as her domain. Beatrice is now dead (as much as a voidsent can die), so I have no idea how the castle is still existing, but we don't really know the rules of the Thirteenth that well, so maybe a domain created by a powerful enough voidsent can persist past that voidsent's demise (and being eaten by another voidsent).

Zero speculates that Beatrice used to live somewhere similar to the castle, and thus created the castle based on the real thing, which is allegedly now gone due to the Flood of Darkness. To add on to this, Y'shtola later says (in the context of Zero's domain) "a person's domain is a reflection of what abides in their heart". So what we see of Troia is probably what might have been the real Troia that Beatrice lived in, but interpreted through her memories and perceptions.

In other words, all those statues could have actually been in the real Troia. Or they could just be representative of something, and Beatrice's subconscious memory interpreted them as statues when she recreated Troia. We don't actually know what the case is, and I think the possibilities are fascinating.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

MSQ

Eidolon was that game's name for summoned creatures.

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I actually just learned this very recently (like yesterday):

The name "Eidolon" for summoned creatures was actually used for FFIV as well... but only in the Nintendo DS FFIV 3D remake. As in, apparently the new Pixel Remasters don't use the term "Eidolon" to refer to summoned creatures in FFIV.

I had assumed it was a standardization change and "Eidolon" would now be used for summoned creatures ("genjuu", 幻獣, in Japanese) in older Final Fantasy games in general, but I was informed that this is actually not the case. On a brief Google search, "Eidolon" was used in FFIV 3D entirely because the translator for that remake liked the term, and felt it should be used in more places than just FFIX.

So "Eidolon" might be a FFIX reference, or it could be a FFIV 3D reference, or it could be both at the same time, in varying degrees.

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Island Sanctuary

The hook for this is really just, "Tataru is now rich enough to buy you an island." I lol'd. That's about as far as I've gotten with it, but apparently she's got another scheme going on. The break from serious plot is nice.

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I do like how it calls back to what we learned all the way back at the beginning of the game (at least if you start in Limsa Lominsa), that Merlwyb was trying to find a less piratical career for the former pirate crews. So Tataru suggesting an experiment to see how self-sufficient a given island in the Cieldalaes could be would fit perfectly with that.

Presumably the mammet support is intended to simulate a full crew of pirates-turned-settlers in the real thing. The current experiment is mainly just "can you live on and develop the island using just the resources from that island".

This patch definitely felt like a new story direction more than 6.1

MSQ

After playing through the patch story, I came to two theories of the story direction and both hinge on who Golbez is. First theory is Golbez is another sundered Ascian. 4 are still unaccounted for: Pashtarot, Altima, Halmarut, and Deudalaphon. Altima and Deudalaphon"s masks were on Gaius hip in Stormblood, but we are not certain if he sealed them in Auracite first to actually kill them.

I don't really like this theory as it's been done before as well as how highly unlikely a tempered sundered Ascian would kill the shard of Zodiark in the 13th as shown in the Golbez flashback vision. That flashback also explains why Emet gave up on the 13th. With no shard of Zodiark to rejoin, the world is a lost cause.

Second theory is Golbez is the 13th shard of Azem. I know a lot of people will say "well, what about Zero" but I'm on the fence about that one. My reasoning is this: out of all of the enemies we have faced, who could challenge us after Meteion? To me, the answer is Azem, ourselves.

We've already seen through the dark knight questline that we have a side to us that enjoys the killing as well as a side to us the grieves it. If Golbez is a shard of Azem turned bad, it will be not only a shocking twist, but I leads to an arc of atonement through rejoining with us.

My feeling on Zero is she is the ultimate bad. Not because of her name, but what she is, a memoriate. The entire reason her world fell was because of the memoriates. I have a feeling her recalling of the events is not accurate or not forthright. She gives me major Garland vibes from FF9.

That's my crackpot take at least.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

And off the wall but who else can see Emet kicking and screaming at Hydaelyn, all the while crying out grumpily that he doesn't want to go as she's trying to carry him back? Anyone?

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Can I add to this mental image:

Hyth off to the side grinning madly and making cheerful comments.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Raid

Hesperos had this whole vampire/castlevania thing going. I was hoping for other such allusions to perhaps other classic games.
Any ideas on possible references here or with P7 for that matter?

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There's a few, though maybe not quite as on the nose.
Raid

Resident Evil- the P4 fight evokes William Birkin and Nemesis in a few of his forms and the P2's scythe limb is pretty evocative of general G-virus mutations, though maybe a bit more of a stretch. Proto Carbuncle is just a specific reference to the original fight from FFV where they were a lot more... buff, and the tree I haven't got anything much for (other than the fruit look like the Behelit from Berserk).

MSQ / Troia

I'm pretty sure y'all are overthinking Beatrice, or are at least on the wrong track.

She's a reference to Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy. That's in conjunction with the Four Archfiends (Scarmiglione, Barbariccia, Cagnazzo, and Rubicante), Ciriatto, and Farfarello (all members of the Malebranche that guard Bolgia Five of the Eighth Circle of Hell). Seems they're going with Divine Comedy references this time around, or at least ones to the most famous Inferno part.

Went through Troia on Explorer mode; there's only one clear portrait in the one room, and it bears no resemblance to Beatrix I can make out.

The terms "eidolon" and "memoria" do bring IX to mind, but "eidolon" was used in XIII as well, and continuing the Divine Comedy reference "memoria" is just Italian for memory. The term "contramemoria" translates to "countermemory," just for the curious.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Let me paint the picture.

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It's worth 357 gil.

As others have stated, Venat / Hydaelyn specifically ferried Minfilia and Emet-Selch's souls back from the First so they (or at least the latter) could play their parts in Endwalker.

There's a lot going on with Pandaemonium we still don't have answers to; saying Venat / Hydaelyn was hiding it down there the whole 12,500 years for no discernible purpose is jumping to a conclusion. We don't know who made the original memory stone that led us there, what's on the paired stone Claudien was chasing, why the Lahabrea we knew was so much more like Hephaistos than the austere man we met in Abyssos, what importance Erichthonios had to Athena's experiments, or why Pandaemonium's shown up in the Aetherial Sea in the present day. We don't know any of this. "Because Hydaelyn" is... a really hasty conclusion.

Also as stated by others, Zodiark was artificially stimulating the celestial aether currents to prevent the Final Days. We don't know what mechanism Hydaelyn used to sunder the planet beyond "that was her power," but if a world recombination was in the cards I'm pretty sure more would be hinting at it than some gatherer / crafter quests.

Just my opinion.

P.S. the 357 gil is just a reference to how much the new Scion portraits you can buy from an artist after completing the 6.2 Tataru quest with the Redbills resell for. It's not meant to suggest your opinion has low value.

MSQ

I really enjoyed Troia. The Voidsent are already shaping up to be much more interesting antagonists. The castle as well as Zero's Domain had a sort of Disgaea vibe going for them. I wonder what happens to all the aether that the Voidsent collect, especially if it doesn't naturally return to the lifestream in a cyclical fashion.

Pandaemonium

Some interesting revelations overall, but everything is still very mysterious. I wonder how they're going to connect Tartarus' past and present, even from a raid fight perspective.

I do find it interesting that for all Emet's claims about the Convocation 'not tolerating acts of deception or malice', Lahabrea did murder his wife, split off his memories and concealed them from the rest of the Convocation, and then tried to destroy the evidence when it resurfaced. It's also interesting that the wild genius that Emet remembers Lahabrea as seems to be more akin to how Lahabrea remembers Athena. I wonder if that's a consequence of him picking up the red soulstone.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Can I add to this mental image:

Hyth off to the side grinning madly and making cheerful comments.

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Yes. Yes you can I approve of the addition ^_^ lol

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Originally Posted by Alleo

About the raid

We did learn a few more interesting things about the Ancient world. Seemingly they also believed in gods which I found quite surprising. (Themis mentioned that the knowledge Athena gained was only for the gods) Also there seems to be places with treasure and Azem was seemingly quite a bit of a adventurer. Wonder if that is a hint that other civilizations had existed. All of this makes it even more clear that the Ancient world was really similiar to our own. Including having evil people that would kill to get what they want.

I wonder if we will find out what happened with Lahabrea. Our Lahabrea feels way more like the evil side of him. He also used fusion and the Ascians may have used the knowledge gained by Lahabreas wife to be able to live outside a body. Since that was seemingly not possible for the Ancients.

Still this old Lahabrea (who really looks nothing like the young one other than the eyes) was also very cold and would kill even his own wife for the good of the star. I can see him in our Lahabrea too with his dedication to bring back the old world no matter the cost.

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im about to break my arm reaching but

what if this means that the twelve predate the ancients in some form?

Just some idle speculation

Golbez has a white eye in the center of his helmet's visor. I can't say for sure, but I see other circulating the idea too. It looks like a white Great Wyrm eye, so it may be that Azdaja lost an eye upon entering the Void, and that may be how Golbez was able to subdue her.

Also since Rubicante is edging up a plan with Cagnazzo, I'm wondering if we're going to get a tandem battle with them as the second trial. While something like all 4 of them being reserved for a future Ultimate, since Scarm and Barb are dead-dead. This would leave Golbez/Azdaja as Trial 3, following the formula of 3 trials per thingie, but since this is in the MSQ there's also the door left open for potential Zeromus as a 4th trial. I mean, if they're intent on giving us the same number of Trials as SHB, then we just hit the Ruby Weapon analogue or looking at it in Stormblood terms since it echoes the Auspice storyline in format, the Byakko (The tornados moving out from her center are similar to the bubbles from Byakko even). In the cases of prior expansions though, the mode was Side Trial(Byakko/Ruby) -> Main Trial(Tsukuyomi/SoS) -> Side - Side+done. Now it's just Main Main Main ?Main?

Still super curious as to what Golbez means when he says, "The Blessed Damned." Wonder if he's specifically referring to Zero, the Memoriates, or the WoL.

I'm afraid this might be as interesting as it gets. When the intrigue is here, priming our expectations/filling our heads up with wonder. The follow through might be a letdown.

Also a tidbit, finished Extreme tonight. No petrification moves. Just more slow hair tethers with enumeration pair offs and a semi-Pantokrator like phase during her Hair Suit phase.

I still hope we get an answer why in Shadowbringers the Ancients told that there was a coming from deep inside the Planet that started the Final Days. We now know that Meteion was at the edge of the Universe. So this Sound can't be her Song of Oblivion. I really hoped Pandemonium would sheed some light on this matter. But it doesnt seem so.

Can't seem to get this stupid Spoiler Tag to work.