Dragoon is next

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Originally Posted by Selvokaz

im pretty sure you all understand the reason for wanting to reduce button bloat is because more buttons are coming in the next expansion right?

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And you realize all the high-end content happens between the couple year period between expansions, which is the bulk of the game's life cycle and during which job engagement is a much more important factor than the few weeks when everyone is playing MSQ? We aren't even 6.2 yet, there's literally no worse time to start taking parts out of the engine on a vague promise you'll get something working in 7.0.

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Design philosophies change, new ideas come up, and better ways of handling things are a part of those new ideas.

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And the right time to unveil that is when you actually have something to show for it, not incremental unfinished ideas you refuse to explain even out of the game. Right now we have seen nothing better.

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In the next expansion you know for sure 10 more levels of leveling are coming and in those 10 levels they will likely squeeze in 5 new features with perhaps 2 of them being new buttons, and the other 3 being traits that upgrade existing buttons. This is just the ff14 formula now.

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Speaking of being willing to change design philosophies, maybe it's time to rethink the mandatory 2-extra button per expansion one? Not that every single job really had that many in 7.0 either. Dragoon for one. You can just update buttons to fancier animations and tune some quality of life stuff if there's actually nothing to fix about a job. Look at what 82-90 actually entails, "room for 5 new features" is a huge misdirect on your part - the only actual thing that even theoretically needed squeezing was Wyrmwind.

You could easily make the level 100 capstone ability just a combo move after Stardiver or Dragonfire, change fundamentally nothing about the rotation and no-one would complain. We didn't last time.

until the new updates are done it all hearsay and drama till then i will wait play my game to see if any improvements are made and not be a crybaby about it.

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Originally Posted by george357

until the new updates are done it all hearsay and drama till then i will wait play my game to see if any improvements are made and not be a crybaby about it.

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holy shit you're so manly and dreamy

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Originally Posted by george357

until the new updates are done it all hearsay and drama till then i will wait play my game to see if any improvements are made and not be a crybaby about it.

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I don't understand when people say that when all SE has done since EW is dumbing down jobs. I think people have waiting and observed long enough.

And with EW I meant ShB. lol Silly me.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Speaking of being willing to change design philosophies, maybe it's time to rethink the mandatory 2-extra button per expansion one? Not that every single job really had that many in 7.0 either. Dragoon for one. You can just update buttons to fancier animations and tune some quality of life stuff if there's actually nothing to fix about a job. Look at what 82-90 actually entails, "room for 5 new features" is a huge misdirect on your part - the only actual thing that even theoretically needed squeezing was Wyrmwind.

You could easily make the level 100 capstone ability just a combo move after Stardiver or Dragonfire, change fundamentally nothing about the rotation and no-one would complain. We didn't last time.

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This honestly. I don't get why we need new skills every expansion, at this point, or a big rework. Changing animations and adding some functionalities to existing skills is enough imho. See for example sheltron becoming holy sheltron, or the upgrade to say Intevention. Nothing removed and no new buttons there, but a great functionality improvement that gave something fresh. And the new skills PLD got all went on the same button we had before.

So no, you don't need to delete skills that were just fine just to add new ones in each expansion, and even if you add skills they don't need to be on new buttons.
And you also don't need to rework a class that works fine as it is just because "gotta keep it new". That's what the new classes are for.

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Originally Posted by Selvokaz

im pretty sure you all understand the reason for wanting to reduce button bloat is because more buttons are coming in the next expansion right?
Design philosophies change, new ideas come up, and better ways of handling things are a part of those new ideas. In the next expansion you know for sure 10 more levels of leveling are coming and in those 10 levels they will likely squeeze in 5 new features with perhaps 2 of them being new buttons, and the other 3 being traits that upgrade existing buttons. This is just the ff14 formula now.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

And you realize all the high-end content happens between the couple year period between expansions, which is the bulk of the game's life cycle and during which job engagement is a much more important factor than the few weeks when everyone is playing MSQ? We aren't even 6.2 yet

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This says it better than I could. Keep in mind that originally the DRG/AST reworks were supposed to be implemented next month. The next expansion is a year and a half away. If they want to rework everything to make room for 2 more buttons, why not just wait until 7.0 to do everything they planned to do? (Like they did with SMN).

It seems silly to give people new abilities and then 2 patches later take them away and simplify the job for the rest (i.e. more than half) of the expansion.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

Speaking of being willing to change design philosophies, maybe it's time to rethink the mandatory 2-extra button per expansion one? Not that every single job really had that many in 7.0 either. Dragoon for one. You can just update buttons to fancier animations and tune some quality of life stuff if there's actually nothing to fix about a job. Look at what 82-90 actually entails, "room for 5 new features" is a huge misdirect on your part - the only actual thing that even theoretically needed squeezing was Wyrmwind.

You could easily make the level 100 capstone ability just a combo move after Stardiver or Dragonfire, change fundamentally nothing about the rotation and no-one would complain. We didn't last time.

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Agreed here. I get that it's difficult balancing "add new stuff with "having room (both hotbar, and job design) for new stuff". Most people who are at the point where they're lvl 80+ would be fine with some changes/upgrades to existing abilities, e.g. Dragonfire Dive getting a DoT, combo abilities like you mention (though, they would need to be careful with some jobs to make sure they continue to fit into burst windows and they don't create another GNB), give charges to abilities, etc.

DRG could easily be "Spineshatter Dive is replaced by Dragonspineshatter Dive when entering life of the Dragon" or something along those lines. People aren't looking for huge changes, and these "Press another button every 1-2 minutes" additions really aren't as much as they think it is.

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Originally Posted by Selvokaz

In the next expansion you know for sure 10 more levels of leveling are coming and in those 10 levels they will likely squeeze in 5 new features with perhaps 2 of them being new buttons, and the other 3 being traits that upgrade existing buttons. This is just the ff14 formula now.

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I actually really, really hope that next expansion is the very last level cap increase. I really hope this game stops at level 99 or 100. I don’t play wow, but I remember hearing that they had to do a level squish because there was way too many levels for the number of skills, so you would just have big chunks of levels that were essentially a meaningless gameplay experience, nothing changed. In my opinion, FFXIV already got there by ShB. I don’t want this to continue on forever in this game.

WoW had a level, stat AND world (zones/mobs) level squish.
Max before was 120 before. Now 60 (soon 70). Nothing to do with skills. Heck, they barely gave new skills unless it was part of borrowed power last two expansions.
With FF14, they could stop at 90 or 100 to even it. Everything is block behind Msq and Ilvl anywho.

I started leveling a Drg (melee dps) so 2cent but this goes beyond Drg. I'll like if jobs were easier. If this game didn't have controller support I would never played FF14..or got far. That where I enjoy WoW classes over FF14 job bloat any day.

me when i have to put in 10 minutes of effort to learn a rotation on a dummy