In regards to something involving the main cast

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The same purpose they play in the real world. Without ferocious predators to keep the population of other creatures in balance, a predator's prey will inevitably cause environmental destruction. As cute as a gazelle may be, if left to graze with no limit then there's not going to be much in the way of grass which negatively impacts many other species. So the existence of a lion to feast upon the gazelle will ensure that the delicate balance remains intact. Aside from feeding the lion, the gazelle's carcass will also provide much needed nurturing for the soil itself. Furthermore, as it decays even bugs will serve a purpose - hastening the decay.

It's a safe bet that the Ancients themselves came to such conclusions during the course of their research, especially since they had entire academies devoted to different fields.

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My whole point is asking why they thought they needed to escalate the ecosystem's arms race by making things that had no place to be there that eventually warranted more insane monsters. In our world, the food web is balanced and everything has their own ecological niche. When the environment changes or new species migrate in, some who can't adapt die and then the remaining ones will change to fill in any empty niches. When you introduce something that has no business being there, you upset the whole balance. Like how Australia decided to introduce cane toads to solve a beetle problem but the cane toads are poisonous and nothing can eat them and they went crazy on the environment and left the beetles alone.

The gazelles are kept in check by lions, there's no real reason to add the giant, flying, fire-breathing wolves unless you made them either because you felt like it or because the ecosystem is being thrown out of control by the humongous, antlered, lighting-calling panthers you made last week.

"It's a fantasy game and it's just a reason to explain monsters" is the meta excuse. But the Ancients didn't wake up one morning realizing they're in a fantasy game so they have carte blanche to recreate Street Sharks. Though I doubt we'll learn of how it got this way unless they make a Tales of the Dawn entry on the origins of Elpis, it was probably a slippery slope that led to where they got to at the point we arrived. I'm sure it started with better intentions but it ended with researchers wanting to see a bunch of things fight and creating life to keep up with the trends. When it's normal, you don't see it as a bad thing and I'm sure most of them see it that way. But then you have Hermes who was in the wrong position for someone cursed with caring too much and he decided he was going to end the world over it.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

They did not create the world we walk with the view of kindness and fairness to all within it. That's unarguable, and we can call it cruel and inconsiderate because it was. And to deny that would also be to deny the Ancients' inherent humanity and agency.

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Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they don't 'get' it. I feel the need to address this because it's a common tactic I see in this forum to dismiss people.

The quoted statement is just further confirmation there's no discussing the story with you because you are so hardwired in your beliefs you don't even consider the subject debatable. You have already passed your judgment on the Ancients and deemed any other interpretation to be wrong to the extent of cutting anyone who would dissent off at the pass by saying they'd be in denial.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The same purpose they play in the real world. Without ferocious predators to keep the population of other creatures in balance, a predator's prey will inevitably cause environmental destruction. As cute as a gazelle may be, if left to graze with no limit then there's not going to be much in the way of grass which negatively impacts many other species. So the existence of a lion to feast upon the gazelle will ensure that the delicate balance remains intact. Aside from feeding the lion, the gazelle's carcass will also provide much needed nurturing for the soil itself. Furthermore, as it decays even bugs will serve a purpose - hastening the decay.

It's a safe bet that the Ancients themselves came to such conclusions during the course of their research, especially since they had entire academies devoted to different fields.

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Like I've been saying: even if it works, it's not a kind world at all. I'm sure the gazelle isn't very happy that someone decided that the best way to keep them in check was to invent lions.

...and given that FFXIV's origin myth is apparently just a bunch of weird creatives, I'm wondering how the gazelle's inventor and the lion's inventor feel about each other. Like, was this a mutual agreement, or was Mr. Gazelle pretty mad about this?

EDIT: In fact, given we don't actually know about the in-universe origin of the gazelle-lion dynamic, do we even know that the gazelles came first in this case, or is it possible that the lions existed first and then someone decided the savannah needed edible lawnmowers? That's also not great news to the gazelles, mind you, but it does change how the Ancients might feel about the lions.

all of this mud.... because yshtola created a cute mindless bubble.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

all of this mud.... because yshtola created a cute mindless bubble.

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That’s just one example. It’s mainly because this story has a bad case of rules for thee but not for me.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

That’s just one example. It’s mainly because this story has a bad case of rules for thee but not for me.

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genuine question- when? the time travel to save the wol? which also prevents the heroes from being too crippled to fight back against the ascians and saves an entire world? or the primal summoning in the eden raid? which let them rebalance the worlds aether and let it heal?

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

genuine question- when? the time travel to save the wol? which also prevents the heroes from being too crippled to fight back against the ascians and saves an entire world? or the primal summoning in the eden raid? which let them rebalance the worlds aether and let it heal?

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Fifty imaginary dollars says they're gonna say Venat and this thread spirals into that argument too.

I've mentioned before, I've seen a lot of people claim hypocrisy on the part of the game or the playerbase in giving heroes a pass for actions the same as the villains, but whose examples only make sense if you completely dismiss all context explaining the actual difference between the two.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

genuine question- when? the time travel to save the wol? which also prevents the heroes from being too crippled to fight back against the ascians and saves an entire world? or the primal summoning in the eden raid? which let them rebalance the worlds aether and let it heal?

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I already gave one example. The WoL expressing shock at butterflies being killed for clothing when it’s literally no different from leather workers or Weavers killing animals to make their products. It’s a weird tone deaf way of trying to paint the ancients as “scary” when in reality what they do is no different from what the sundered do.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Fifty imaginary dollars says they're gonna say Venat and this thread spirals into that argument too.

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honestly after that last thread im so incredibly tired of that debate.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I already gave one example. The WoL expressing shock at butterflies being killed for clothing when it’s literally no different from leather workers or Weavers killing animals to make their products. It’s a weird tone deaf way of trying to paint the ancients as “scary” when in reality what they do is no different from what the sundered do.

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the given responses are wondering if their creators would get mad at us or something else. in game we never condemn them for the butterflies or anything else in elpis for that matter.