Endwalker's message (spoilers!)

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Yup, I think B is ultimately why the writers chose not to have her do it. But then it all comes down to how they handled it via the time travel plot, so /shrug.

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This is why a story shouldn't have both time loop and multi timeline, because one of them will not make sense.

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Originally Posted by crimsonwitch

Not understanding your point.. What did you expect her to do? Expose Hermes in front of Emet and Hythlodaeus who lost their memories ? Tell all of the ancients that Hermes created a monstrosity that is now far away in the galaxy?
I think the ancients might've thought she lost her mind and needed to return to the earth then. EVEN back then dynamis(the emotional aether) was a concept they didn't know much about. They wouldn't have believed Meteion was brewing a storm far far away to end the world.

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So, take the whole game into consideration. This line of reasoning becomes very flimsy. Why? Because the Ancients have the Echo. They can control it at will. Sure, Hyth and Emet had their memories wiped, but if Venat presented herself and said, "Look into my memories, and the memories of the traveler." They would then see and feel exactly what we felt in Ktsis Hyperboreia. They would see and feel the WoL defending Hythlodaeus. They would see Meteion streaking off into the cosmos.

This power that every Ancient possesses is conveniently sidelined in the most egregious way, since Venat makes use of it just a few quests earlier to see Hermes speaking to Meteion about launching her sisters off into the cosmos. They all possess this ability. To see and experience the memories of others through the environment and their living aether. We ourselves have inadvertently used it to resolve earlier plots in the game hundreds of times. Yet in this instance it had to be discarded so that the narrative could be obeyed, while the writers pray that we somehow don't notice it.

It would have been easy to fix. Just have Venat lose her memory and create Hydaelyn completely of her own volition. OR just have her try it, only for something with the Memory Wiping spells impact how her memories are perceived as well, leading to reasonable doubt. They just had to nip this hole in the bud with one or two lines or one extra cutscene, and they did not. It is insulting.

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Originally Posted by crimsonwitch

The problem with this argument is that

A. If she lost her memories to become a tragic hero, she never would’ve become hydaelyn
And
B. If she did solve it all back then with emet and hythlo, we wouldn’t even exist in the game since the world would be whole.
Somebodies lapse of judgement is what lead to our story now. I’m not saying she was good but not completely bad either. sorry you didn’t like the story , but it’s all we got.

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That is the reason why time travel and/or parallel universes are so troublesome. If you overlook something then you create a story which retcons itself.

There is one more error in the story: who created the name "Hydaelyn"? We did not create this name because we got told it. And Venat did also not create it because we told her that she will become Hydaelyn. She knows the term "Hydaelyn" from us. So the term "Hydaelyn" should not exist because nobody created it. :) I guess, this falls into the famous "grandfather paradox". :)



Cheers

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Originally Posted by FusiaRain

I hope it does tbh, because fuck humanity and their bs. Thats not fear that is hope right there

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Is that you Hermes?

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

This power that every Ancient possesses is conveniently sidelined in the most egregious way, since Venat makes use of it just a few quests earlier to see Hermes speaking to Meteion about launching her sisters off into the cosmos. They all possess this ability. To see and experience the memories of others through the environment and their living aether. We ourselves have inadvertently used it to resolve earlier plots in the game hundreds of times. Yet in this instance it had to be discarded so that the narrative could be obeyed, while the writers pray that we somehow don't notice it.

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She also said that aether memory in environment fades away with time but it never explain if it is fast process slow or just fades off randomly

we dont know ether the full effect of kairos, we know it affects everyone in area its command to use but. dose it also affect the persons aether in environment we just don't know unless its was explained and i did just missed it.
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Also after playing Pandæmonium quest line i dont think that
every Ancient has the power to see the memory of the past.

It could be that Venat did not want to change the course of history, Doing so could well unmake us, or make alternate timeline, list goes on or u can use Dr who line, fix point in time cant change that sorry

Putting time travel in a story will always be a mess, A Lot of unknowns seeing there a lot of how time travel work versions

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Originally Posted by Chie_M

Endwalker has the most stereotypical JRPG message imaginable.

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That rules and regulations should be followed lest you want catastrophic results?

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

The MSQ was nice but the more I looked at it the more I noticed the rather large flaws of it. Zenos wants to fight us, Fandango wants to get to Zodiark, Zenos can apparently destroy the seals by himself but they opt for these stupid towers (and before anyone mentions it, yes I fully believe Zenos could destroy all the seals by himself. It's Zenos, the guy is one more poorly written power up away from basically becoming God), why didn't Fandango just tell Zenos "hey you destroy these seals and I can assure you that your crush will come running to fight you!". It just feels like they wasted patches and a third of a expac for these towers just to go "Welp, guess we'll do it ourselves".

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Maybe the zeals were a lot sturdier before 5 of them got blown up.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Based on the scene we're shown, she spouted platitudes while their star was dying - an approach Alphinaud and Alisaie learnt did not go down well in Garlemald. What she categorically did not do is reveal anything that went down in Elpis.

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I don't think the scene we're shown is supposed to be a literal account of how it went down, after all she's casually strolling through the streets looking pained while everything around them collapses and everyone is running away in fear, and Hythlodaeus casually waves goodbye and walks away as he's off to be sacrificed to Zodiark that very instant.

They definitely could've made it more clear we're watching an abridged version of the events though, but we can infer as much. It all still feels kind of flimsy though.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

For a mercy, we're rid of her all/most of them now anyway.

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Amen to that.

It didn't wrap up as neatly as I'd hoped, but I guess at least it's wrapped up.

I like the part of it where, as rational as despair might sound, no matter how much proof you have that it's right, it's ultimately pointless and hope will win out in the end. I also like the idea that hope is (for Meteion and Hydaelyn specifically) worth waiting thousands of years for.

The part of it about humanity needing to suffer rather than seek harmony in order to persevere, not so much. It's nice that they managed to tie it into 1.x/2.x and the Answers song and all, but the message here kind of sucks.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Yep. Also a sad tale of an abusive mom trying to claim what’s “best” for her children when in reality she tore them apart and inflicted suffering on them.

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I don't know how you got this take when the final stretch of The Dead Ends is devoted to how the Amaurotine people would have ended up if they'd had their way with Zodiark.

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"There was a time when we believed in our legacy, thought ourselves marking a worthy path our successors might follow. Efforts rendered futile when we discovered the keys to paradise and immortality. As individuals we struggled to know what was right, yet in today's perfect unity there is naught left to question. We are infinity constricted by the finite, but no more - Ra-la shall grant us the mercy of annihilation."

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ad-Ends-78.png

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Heck, the whole theme of Endwalker is to not continually seek the comfort of the past instead of living in the present/looking to the future.