On Venat's Role in the Story

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It’s a bit difficult to just look at things in the simplest way when they make things complex, nevertheless though a large part of enjoyment for many people is dissecting the story and lore points and connecting things. This has been a very popular thing to do for 14 for years now it didn’t just become a thing. It’s only now being seen as a problem it seems because this expansion is a bit controversial between peoples opinions on how good it was.

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Complex senarios and questions can have simple answers. Its one own choice to dig beyond that. I would to touch on Venat choice to keep quiet. Hermes proved by his own action he would go to any lengths to get his answer and protect Meteion. So stands to reason that leaving him believing she was failure and his research to dangerous to continue. Would be the safest course of action to follow.

As for Emet and Hydth I feel not telling was do simply to their direct involvment.

Just my take on that.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Couple points I will make here.

-Dissecting a story is the best way to utterly ruin it for yourself.

-Never apply real life logic, theory or thought to a fantasy story. Its like purposely injecting dealy acid into your body.

- The simplest answers at times are the best answers. To seek deeper or more complex ones, is a excercise in futility and frustration. OP's post is a prime example among others.

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You do have a point, how many fictional stories would the good guys have won if they were forced to abide by actual logic and realism?

Bad guys in fictional stories are always extremely overpowered so they only lose because it is a fictional story where the hero magically finds a way to win last minute, it makes no sense the vast majority of the time.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Couple points I will make here.

-Dissecting a story is the best way to utterly ruin it for yourself.

-Never apply real life logic, theory or thought to a fantasy story. Its like purposely injecting dealy acid into your body.

- The simplest answers at times are the best answers. To seek deeper or more complex ones, is a excercise in futility and frustration. OP's post is a prime example among others.

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This argument is so disingenuous.

The writers went through years of Xpacs to bring back obscure lore and characters to DISSECT and look back through because they KNOW there are people paying close attention.

Now you want to be flippant and like "hey it's not supposed to be deep meaning STAHP YOU ARE RUINING IT!!!"

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

This argument is so disingenuous.

The writers went through years of Xpacs to bring back obscure lore and characters to DISSECT and look back through because they KNOW there are people paying close attention.

Now you want to be flippant and like "hey it's not supposed to be deep meaning STAHP YOU ARE RUINING IT!!!"

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Disingenuous, You do not know my thoughts,opinions or views. By such measure you just made both of us look like an arse.

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Originally Posted by Mixawaves

I mentioned this in another thread, but the Anyder scene makes a point to say Azem didn't respond to Venat's group, versus denying them outright. Absent more information, my head-canon is Azem is off fighting Terminus and trying to save people, so either can't get the message or respond to it. They seem to want Azem to be as uninvolved as possible in the major plot points of the past, given that they're "us", so I'm not holding out for a detailed history of their actions during the Final Days.

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I need at least one version of my character to not have been on board with Venat. The way I feel about what she did is how others felt about the Ascians and the rejoinings. The difference is the narrative goes out of its way to condemn one while praising the other. Otherwise, I would need to start asking myself if I want to continue to play a story based game where I fundamentally disagree with the messaging of the writers.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Couple points I will make here.

-Dissecting a story is the best way to utterly ruin it for yourself.

-Never apply real life logic, theory or thought to a fantasy story. Its like purposely injecting dealy acid into your body.

- The simplest answers at times are the best answers. To seek deeper or more complex ones, is a excercise in futility and frustration. OP's post is a prime example among others.

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There isn't enough suspension of disbelief to completely ignore real life applications, especially in a game world that is a modified Earth focused around "mankind".

I will say, at this point, I can't tell if the game failed to convey a broader message or if a bunch of players were too quick to latch onto "perfection = bad" over all others. Regardless, I found it to be deeply flawed and the arguments defending it hypocritical.

Since the plot hole train is running over the story. Anyone else find it wierd that krios lacked the ability to restore memories...kinda funny given how smart Hermes is said and shown to be.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I need at least one version of my character to not have been on board with Venat. The way I feel about what she did is how others felt about the Ascians and the rejoinings. The difference is the narrative goes out of its way to condemn one while praising the other. Otherwise, I would need to start asking myself if I want to continue to play a story based game where I fundamentally disagree with the messaging of the writers.



There isn't enough suspension of disbelief to completely ignore real life applications, especially in a game world that is a modified Earth focused around "mankind".

I will say, at this point, I can't tell if the game failed to convey a broader message or if a bunch of players were too quick to latch onto "perfection = bad" over all others. Regardless, I found it to be deeply flawed and the arguments defending it hypocritical.

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No such thing as perfect story even my favorite novel has its share of issues.

I honestly forgot the whole bit about Azem not wanting to support the summoning of either of the primals, which seems like a rather significant bit of missing context; even moreso with the new knowledge that Venat was their mentor.

As much as I'd like to know about things like that, I'm not seeing many places they could logically squeeze it into aside from Pandemonium.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I honestly forgot the whole bit about Azem not wanting to support the summoning of either of the primals, which seems like a rather significant bit of missing context; even moreso with the new knowledge that Venat was their mentor.

As much as I'd like to know about things like that, I'm not seeing many places they could logically squeeze it into aside from Pandemonium.

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A trial series would be the best way to do it, since we could deal with all the remaining questions on the past and then be able to move forward into the new storyline with no problems.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Since the plot hole train is running over the story. Anyone else find it wierd that krios lacked the ability to restore memories...kinda funny given how smart Hermes is said and shown to be.

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Hermes was actually pretty stupid. Academically he's a brainy guy, but he's someone who completely fails to consider that Meteion won't find the answer he's expecting, as well as so emotionally influenced that he ultimately realizes he has to wipe his own memory to be able to not get sidetracked from saving the planet.

But even then... why would Kairos be designed to restore memories? It's built for a purpose, and that purpose is actually to wipe memories of constructs so they can be relocated. Restoring those memories isn't really useful for that workload.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

A trial series would be the best way to do it, since we could deal with all the remaining questions on the past and then be able to move forward into the new storyline with no problems.

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Technically it would, but... personally that'd be too much Amaurot for me. We're supposed to be moving on from this part of the story, and yet we've still got Pandaemonium set there. Do we really need to park another branch of the endgame into the distant past?