Why was my thread about healer dps deleted?

A party can get by with the healer just healing in leveling dungeons. It'll cost a couple of minutes off the run, no big deal. Yes it'll be a pretty bad healer, but they exist and help reduce queue times. and the world doesn't end. Same as a group survives with a dps that does very low dps, or the tank do low dps. I doubt any leveling dungeon group has seen any drama from that, and if so it's easy to report as we're in ACT land.

When someone insists the same goes for higher end content, and even advocates that as the norm, it's a different story. Expect healers to protest an extremly monotonous experience.

Healing wise, I think they've designed themselves into a corner. You want healers to be able to contribute to the group in a way that continuously rewards further improved player skill. It's not intuitive how that can be done for the healing itself, with a design based on predictable intermittent damage, gameplay heavy on cooldowns, and generally small mana pools with high regen. So healers don't contribute to clear times except by their ability to dps. And for reasons unknown, that dps is designed to be incredibly brainlessly monotonous. That, at least, could be fixed.

I wonder how it would be if the healing was gcd and the dps was weaving in ogcd more or less optimally depending on skill and knowledge, but suspect that wouldn't help much with the mana the way it is.

Well reasoned.

I do wish higher difficulties had more rot techniques and less "learn the dance" strategy.

More room for error and less dodge dodge dodge would likely make savage raiding more appealing to casual players while giving healers more to do, and probably wouldn't even change the difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Why not indeed, though with a 2 minute cool down that's some very spaced out sprinkles.

Again, no problem with dps, and if SE felt the need for an ability that bears a strong resemblance to other already existing abilities, that's common with all classes and doesn't warrant much thought. Same as every tank getting a gap closer and other such equalizing additions.

It's calls for whole new concepts that fortify the emphasis of dps above healing that burns my bean, such as healer dps rotations.

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Yeah it would be spaced out but it still helps to space out the monotony of Nuke spam.
Here's my stance on Healer DPS.
I want 1 Single Target Nuke/DoT and 1 AoE Nuke/DoT for a total of 4 DPS spells. Nothing crazy there, just consistency in terms of design because a ST and AoE nuke but only a ST DoT feels off.

Next, I want to introduce a few GCD skills that function on a similar design to Macrocosmos.
My Ideas
Erupting Spring
Conjure a Geyser of water to spring from the earth that deals 300 water damage for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Addition Effect: Creates a Healing Spring at location, granting healing over time to self and any party member that enters
Duration: 18 seconds
Cure potency: 100
CD: 120s.
Essentially, an offensive version of Asylum for WHM that fits thematically with the job and still functions as a healing ability.

Aeolus
Surround the enemy in a swirl of lights that deal unaspected damage with a potency of 50 to target and all nearby enemies. (Effect does not stack with Aero 3)
Duration: 24 seconds
Additional Effect: Grants Rejuvenating Breeze to self and neary allies
Rejuvenating Breeze Effect:Grants Healing over Time effect
Duration: 12 seconds
Cure Potency: 150
CD: 90 seconds

Aero 3 that throws Regen on everyone. Again, thematically appropriate and since it doesn't stack with Aero 3, it can't be used as a DPS skill and would only be used for Healing purposes.

Things like this would help break up monotonously spamming the same few skills and would satisfy both sides of the argument between DPS skills and Healers that want to heal.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Same as assize, essentially. I've already noted that for all that many claim healers are "one button dps" this is far from the case.

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Macrocosmos isn't a DPS spell in the sense that it doesn't provide extra DPS. Using it for DPSing is objectively a waste in most situations except maybe in a dungeon. It's a 2 minute healing cooldown that has the same cast time and potency than Fall Malefic, AST basic Nuke. It is AoE though, so in dungeon pulls it provides a bit of extra DPS (About 125 potency more than Gravity on the main target so it's not a huge difference.)

It can't really qualify towards Healer DPS arsenal.

Same with Sage's Pneuma. Those aren't really DPS buttons, just heals with a some damage, unlike Assize. Assize being an OGCD is a DPS gain. With a potency of 400 it would also be a DPS gain being a GCD, so it is indeed part of WHM's offensive kit.

What I find strange about this community someone plays poorly some often say give them the benefit of the doubt they could be having a bad day, disabled, new even when they have multiple characters above their 60. Why do people feel the need to make excuses for playing poorly no matter the role or content.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

See the core flaw there? Healers are the only class that is expected to excel in two areas. What a strange and unexpected burden to place on a player.

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A core "flaw" based on the development team's design philosophy. The community didn't arbitrarily decide one day to prioritize DPS. In fact, in ARR and early HW, it was heavily frowned upon. That mindset changed as players realized how little healing was actually required, first in casual content then higher end once the Creator era became the established norm. In other words, the community's expectations adapted around a gradually easier game which didn't necessitate a focus on healing. Several of us in this very thread don't agree with this design philosophy for that very reason: we aren't healers, we're hybrid DPS who occasionally heal. Unfortunately, the dev team refuses to change their philosophy, thus indirectly encouraging a DPS-centric meta.

Give healers new gameplay decision besides nuke spamming and you'll see less nuke spamming. Player buffs, enemy debuffs, crown control and/or utility are all aspects that would provide engagement that isn't spamming the same button 150+ times. Ironically, your own perspective that healers cannot be too complicated only serves to keep them pigeoned hole in being valued for their DPS contributions and little else. A good "healer" isn't useful in higher end content. A good "hybrid healer" is.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

It really begs the question: who is the truly selfish player, the one who dictates how others should play for their own desire for speed or the player who is happy to perform their role exclusively? I'd be willing to accept that both can be described as a bit selfish, but even that seems to be too painful a truth for many.

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Let's pretend this is a group project where we have four girls forced to work together. The expectation is they each contribute 25% to the project. Perhaps there's some inexperience to consider or some life complications shift those numbers around for three of the girls. One, however, only contributes 10%. She's constantly late, doesn't care to join voice calls since it'll interrupt her Netflix binge. Upset over the prospect of having to do more work, the other girls complain and become frustrated with their work mate's lack of equal contribution. Alas, the project still needs to be done so they end up doing the additional work... with all four getting the same passing grade.

Pretty cut and dry who is selfish in this example, yes? That person is no different than a non-DPSing healer. They contributed significantly less than everyone else but we're supposed to be okay with that because... what, they did something? They didn't give a reason for their lack of effort or unwillingness to cooperate with their team mates. They just didn't care. And if you think healers don't partially AFK to watch Netflix, then you haven't done much DF.

With the GCD, it's all about opportunity costs. Every GCD action for each job is constantly competing with every other GCD action for use every 2.5 second window, and the way we choose which one is best is by determining which one is ultimately generating the most DPS for that 2.5 second window including healing. When we cast something like Medica II, it's because we've decided subconsciously that healing the party and giving everyone a regen is the option that will give us the most bang for our buck--that extra healing we're getting now and across the next 15 seconds will ultimately yield more damage indirectly than casting Glare or Holy as it will prevent someone on the team from being KOed where they otherwise might. Moreover, in that specific example, we've decided that this was the best available amount of healing we could offer or would need.

The same would ultimately be true for buffs, debuffs, and other forms of utility if they were added to the GCD. What are we getting from those abilities that would overall be a more optimal use of my GCD cast than simply casting Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis? You can see this thought process a bit more with Esuna since it's the only GCD action we have (except for Repose which is useless) that isn't healing or damage. If you get Toto-rak, for example, removing poison with Esuna is kind of a waste of time. The damage is too low and it doesn't last long enough to where wasting time on Esuna is worth it.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Healers are the only class that is expected to excel in two areas. What a strange and unexpected burden to place on a player.

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Today, I learned that tanks just slap the boss once or twice to establish aggro, then sit there twiddling their thumbs while they wait for an incoming tankbuster to use their defensive CDs on. They don't try to maximize DPS uptime, or keep their rotation rolling, and they definitely didn't use tank stance as little as possible back in HW when it carried a percentage penalty to DPS. All tanks are totally advised by guides to stack Tenacity, because that's the tanky tank stat that helps them tank better, and not DH or Crit, which are DPS stats that don't help them do their primary job. Yep, tanks are just not expected to contribute to party DPS at all, not like those poor healers who are being unreasonably pressured to remember where the 1 key on their keyboard is.

I also must have just hallucinated that whole period of FF14 when DPS jobs had enmity-reduction skills and were expected to use them to help with aggro management.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

It really begs the question: who is the truly selfish player, the one who dictates how others should play for their own desire for speed or the player who is happy to perform their role exclusively?

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Cool. I assume you're okay with Ice Mages and no-job-stone MRDs in your parties, then.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

If you're referring to cobbling together techniques in a way not native to the game's basic layout, then no, it's not important. You should address that one to SE's customer support or even ideas for lifestyle upgrades, not to me. Expecting players to create macros just to functionly play a class according to your standards is silly.

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Tells me everything I need to know about how poorly thought-out your arguments are. From context alone, you should have known Silver was refering to an ability. And you thought it had something to do with macros?

Being unfamiliar with AST is defensible. What isn't defensible is issuing grandiose proclamations about how your arguments are so brilliant we can't possibly engage with them (see below), when you couldn't even be assed to spend five seconds typing "macrocosmos ffxiv" into Google before opening your mouth.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

P. S. The moment you start inventing "facts" about my personality or play style (lazy, does no content, trolling) I indefinitely consider you to have fully yielded to my argument due to an inability to counter it in any factually based way and I can assuredly ignore all your posts. The equivalent of you shouting, "no u!"

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P.S. Declaring victory and sticking your fingers in your ears is not the galaxy-brain debate-winning move you seem to think it is. However, you may have a bright future in politics with that attitude...

Interesting to say the least

I suggest you play the White Mage Story quests. And make sure you read the detail of the story. It makes you understand why the healer role is very different from the others. It's unique enough that you aren't just playing to heal and watch out for the tank to top their HP up, Not just raising the DPS or esuna them when need. Sometimes healing takes more than just about press that one Cure, it takes insights, it takes a lot of forward thinking if you ever start playing Astrologian. Take every criticism. Just take every one of them and try them out. In such a way, you will play and see what works for you and what not. Sometimes it takes luck and skills in life, such too in playing. All said, you're playing a game. Don't take it too hard on yourself at what other people say or do.

Such in life... these watermelons aren't gonna change for you. Just eat it and then make sure it nutriently flourish in your gut and flush them down the toilet.