Assize should have second charge

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Originally Posted by Acece

Maybe we can just bake in mana regen with lilies? Make misery dps neutral, give it like 10%-15% mana regen and give solace and rapture 5%-10% mana regen.

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thats a bit overkill imo. using lilies as you get them is enough to make up the nerf to thin air, so dps neutral misery could suffice in theory


tbh whms mp economy isnt that dire. buffing assize's mp restore and/or undoing the nerf to thin air (make it 6 seconds if it keeps the 60s cooldown) would be enough

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Originally Posted by QooEr

thats a bit overkill imo. using lilies as you get them is enough to make up the nerf to thin air, so dps neutral misery could suffice in theory


tbh whms mp economy isnt that dire. buffing assize's mp restore and/or undoing the nerf to thin air (make it 6 seconds if it keeps the 60s cooldown) would be enough

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I mean ast cards give a 5% mana regen and with the new buff it gives about 15% so I don't think its out of this world.
I think 5% on solace and rapture and 10% on misery would be just fine.

No one single change fixes all whatever that would be, but I really can't see any problem with this change? I ask because I don't know.

Charges would add a timing outside of just "on cooldown", where a little player skill gives a marginal gain. This is only a good thing.

Thinking about this further, I actually think it would be fair for White Mage to get that as a high-level trait since Sage is also getting a second charge for a similar ability.

Wait what??? Never in the history of being a white mage have i either thought "assize should have a second charge"

Majority of white mages use it for dps/mp dump rather then healing, so a second charge? It is NOT needed

Now i would rather sort the Silly lilies then actual asking for a god damn second assise, like seriously half of the time i legit forget i have lilies to use for healing since we have soo much bloated ogcds anyway

Now my problem is with whitemage is....i need to DUMP my lilies in a meanful way, i need a spell to consume a lily without blowing it for the sake of trying to get an blood lily....which often u end up spending the lilies ln overhealing

Whm have more problems with its "lilies" then assize atm

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Originally Posted by Yhisa

Wait what??? Never in the history of being a white mage have i either thought "assize should have a second charge"

Majority of white mages use it for dps/mp dump rather then healing, so a second charge? It is NOT needed

Now i would rather sort the Silly lilies then actual asking for a god damn second assise, like seriously half of the time i legit forget i have lilies to use for healing since we have soo much bloated ogcds anyway

Now my problem is with whitemage is....i need to DUMP my lilies in a meanful way, i need a spell to consume a lily without blowing it for the sake of trying to get an blood lily....which often u end up spending the lilies ln overhealing

Whm have more problems with its "lilies" then assize atm

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I mean if you have a suggestion on fixing Lilies you can make a separate thread, to repeat the OP never claimed that their suggestion would fix the entire Job. Divine Benison getting 2 charges fixes nothing either, and yet that's gone way past suggestions to an actual implemented trait. I'll never get this TBH; Assize with 2 charges is not a Job nerf, nor does the statement "it doesn't change the general problem of the Job" count as critique because the suggestion didn't set out to do that anyway. It's not like OP has been given a ticket by the developers and balancers to give one be-all-and-end-all idea that will get 100% implemented.

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Originally Posted by Acece

Maybe we can just bake in mana regen with lilies? Make misery dps neutral, give it like 10%-15% mana regen and give solace and rapture 5%-10% mana regen.

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Honestly wouldn't that be odd though? Lilies set out to be MP positive already as they save you MP you'd use to cast Medica II/Cure II. Perhaps Afflatus Misery could do that (just like Energy Drain+Aetherflow works for SCH). AST cards heal nobody, they aren't a replacement for Helios and Benefic.

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Originally Posted by Yhisa

Wait what??? Never in the history of being a white mage have i either thought "assize should have a second charge"

Majority of white mages use it for dps/mp dump rather then healing, so a second charge? It is NOT needed

Now i would rather sort the Silly lilies then actual asking for a god damn second assise, like seriously half of the time i legit forget i have lilies to use for healing since we have soo much bloated ogcds anyway

Now my problem is with whitemage is....i need to DUMP my lilies in a meanful way, i need a spell to consume a lily without blowing it for the sake of trying to get an blood lily....which often u end up spending the lilies ln overhealing

Whm have more problems with its "lilies" then assize atm

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You do realize that WHMs don't hold Assize for healing because it doesn't have a 2nd charge and letting it sit unused is too much of a dps and MP loss, right?
Assize is a multipurpose skill that is also the most unflexible at the same time.

If you constantly forget that Lilies even exist, I suspect you're not running content where the toolkit of any class matters one bit or where you'd notice a lack of QoL. Because WHM doesn't have "bloated ogCDs" - they have exactly two for aoe healing: Asylum and Assize, the latter being extremely unflexible. And no, PI doesn't count as aoe healing in itself because it buffs GCD heals and you said yourself you tend to forget Lilies even exist.

Assize having a 2nd charge wouldn't solve every problem WHM ever had but what it would do is:
- give the option to hold a charge for healing instead of mindlessly keeping it on cooldown like a clockwork
- dump two charges in burst windows/ big pulls if healing isn't necessary for big burst dps
- hold one charge to align with raid buffs
- hold one charge to align with add phases
- give the option to hold one charge for MP on demand because if a WHM died when LD/ Assize is on CD, they'll be thoroughly screwed with the new Thin Air
- hold it during mechanics that force you out of range without misaligning it or losing uses

If none of that matters for you because you don't do content that would benefit from this change, good on you.
Doesn't mean everyone else asking for it doesn't have a good reason to do so.

On a side note, blowing Lilies to get a Blood Lily is a dps loss unless you're able to dump at least one during downtime.
Dumping them between pulls in Expert is great but not every boss has enough, if any, transitions to do that nor is it always possible in terms of healing because dumping a Lily during transition only for you having to Medica II is an even bigger dps loss and makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

On a side note, blowing Lilies to get a Blood Lily is a dps loss unless you're able to dump at least one during downtime.

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This it the issue with Lilies. For the trademark WHM trait, Lilies should at the very least be DPS neutral and it is an easy change for the developers to do.

Playing as a Sage this expansion makes me feel more like White Mage really does deserve a second Assize charge for consistency; Sage gets to have two charges for a similar attack, which it can let stack or have more available to use at the start of an instance, yet White Mage has less options with only one charge.