TheLazyPeon "gives FFXIV another try"

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Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

One one of the things his 180 could also be his job. He said FFXIV's animation graphics weren't flashy while playing SCH, now that he's a BLM his animations are definitely more flashy. That change on view totally makes sense if you have other player effects turned off.

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I don't understand how anyone could say the game isn't flashy unless you literally only do very early leveling.
There's so much going visually when you actually have more, more powerful spells to cast.

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu9xm8dUna8

To be clear, I do not typically follow streamers in general, or TLP, although I was aware of his existence, and had previously viewed a few of his videos over the years. I know enough to say that the guy is a 'mid to upper level' or recognized voice in the MMORPG sphere, who plays a lot of the games in the genre (a lot of games - like stuff you or I would likely never try because it just looks like garbage out of the gate).

The reason I'm posting this isn't because I'm a member of his following, but rather because of the way he approached (this go), and has previously approached FFXIV, and to wonder if it's at all indicative of how a lot of people who don't stick with the game view it.

To be frank, I'm a person who does a fair amount of story-skipping myself - I pay a decent amount of attention to the MSQ as I pass through it the first time, but side-quests and, in particular, the intra-expansion quest chains are basically of no interest to me (I feel like the game talks too much; YMMV, but I'm not appreciative of the 'stand around and chat' exposition that FFXIV has favored as its main delivery of narrative over the years). However, it seems that there are people out there who go far beyond this, and just don't read the quests... at all - like any of them. And it would appear that TLP was one of them, at least until this second try at the game.

I know that ARR's storyline was only just recently streamlined, and that has probably helped matters a lot, but I have to wonder if the game could really benefit from a 10-20 minute action-oriented 'hook' piece of content at the start... rather than having a soothing chat with Hydaelyn and then just going for a chocobo cart ride. If there was a way to... get players more invested in the plots right from the get-go, I think it might make them more apt to sit through the rather talky ARR cutscenes that followed. TLP went into this second effort pledging to himself - forcing himself - to actually read and get involved. But if the game began with a more abrupt jolt, it could go a long way to enticing people who don't have that kind of commitment to get involved immediately.

Just food for thought.

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Who? What? Why?

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

TheLazyPeon tries to hop back on the bandwagon.

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That is the conclusion I came to. I saw his old video and he absolutely hated the game and called it the worst MMO ever.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

How is [the Ahm Araeng arc] padding? It directly relates to how you get to an MSQ dungeon.

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Getting from A to B is a plot point; padding is how many steps it takes you to achieve it – and while it's not bad from start to finish, it's a segment that sticks out to me as having some of the most blatant "this objective exists to waste your time" feelings in the game.

The two worst offenders to me are helping Jeryk with his toolbox – two rounds of slow, unskippable dialogue as he asks you to figure out whether he should fix a loose nail with a screwdriver, a hammer or a saw – and searching for knockers in the mines, which involves something like seven holes to plug with smoke bombs, then re-checking each hole after you're done, then fighting two waves of easy enemies at each hole.

The concept of each of those events could be conveyed so much quicker than it was, and I hope it gets an ARR-style trimming of non-story objectives someday. Doubly so when it bars the way to new-game-plussing the ending of Shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Something they could remove is the Titan questline - or streamline it so that it isn't as drawn out as it is. As it is, some of that questline is... questionable in its necessity.

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They did already streamline it. There are less objectives than there used to be.

And I think it's too tied into other content to make it optional at this point. One of the moogle post quests revolves around it, as does the Ridorana unlock quest.

Plus it simply covers a few levels of MSQ-based levelling up and you'd need to replace it with something else.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Getting from ATO B is a plot point; padding is how many steps it takes you to achieve it – and while it's not bad from start to finish, it's a segment that sticks out to me as having some of the most blatant "this objective exists to waste your time" feelings in the game.

The two worst offenders to me are helping Jeryk with his toolbox – two rounds of slow, unskippable dialogue as he asks you to figure out whether he should fix a loose nail with a screwdriver, a hammer or a saw – and searching for knockers in the mines, which involves something like seven holes to plug with smoke bombs, then re-checking each hole after you're done, then fighting two waves of easy enemies at each hole.

The concept of each of those events could be conveyed so much quicker than it was, and I hope it gets an ARR-style trimming of non-story objectives someday. Doubly so when it bars the way to new-game-plussing the ending of Shadowbringers.

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You could also see it as it's supposed to help you connect to those characters and understand why they consider you a friend and come help you later on.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

TheLazyPeon tries to hop back on the bandwagon.

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He has many MANY bandwagons. I'm not sure where he stores them all. D:

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

This. When people start recommending things to remove, my first thought is "is this important later later on? If so... no. If it never comes up again, yeah pop it into a side quest."

Something they could remove is the Titan questline - or streamline it so that it isn't as drawn out as it is. As it is, some of that questline is... questionable in its necessity.

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The lead up to Titan is long, but it's a well-worn trope of the "secret test of character", one which, quite frankly, I still like despite how common it is.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Incorrect. Going to point this out in a block to avoid spoilers for others, because this is spoilers for the entirety of the game.

Good King Mog hinted at how Primal summoning works, that it makes what you BELIEVE come to life, not the actual individual, which we find out in HW. Leviathan showed that the Echo allows body hopping, hinting strongly at how connected it is to the Ascians and what somebody could possibly do with it. Ramuh hinted that things are not as black and white as we think, and that light and dark are two sides of the same coin. Ivy's subterfuge was a warning not to trust those close to us so easily, something that hit us hard with the betrayal by the Crystal Braves, and much later with Misija's betrayal in Save the Queen.

Everything is foreshadowing future events and knowledge, so it is all important to the plot in the grand scheme of things.

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I agree with ya heavily. ARR does a lot of buildup in subtle nuances if you can pick them up that becomes very integral to the storytelling in the long run.

Running through the ARR MSQ again for the third time, there's a lot of MSQ they did trim out that was comedic / entertaining and for atmosphere buildup - if only to simplify the experience and make it less of a 'slog'. There's a lot taken away that did make the experience a lot smoother, but it's also true that some of these quests served as a way to immerse yourself into the adventure, which made it feel less of a grind if you're actually just playing the story for the first time to enjoy the journey.

The problem is that people are told about the HYPE that is Heavensward, and they're so focused on Heavensward that they are no longer immersing themselves into the story since they just want to "skip" this part and go to Heavensward, the 'good' part.

A lot of people have to remember that ARR post patches (2.1 to 2.55) was not made in a day. To go through the story as if you are supposed to rush the quests quickly will only burn you out faster than ever since they're supposed to be done over a significantly longer period of time.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

You could also see it as it's supposed to help you connect to those characters and understand why they consider you a friend and come help you later on.

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We were already friends with Jeryk though. And there's no reason why those conversations couldn't be skipped on a second playthrough. It's the fact they're inane AND unskippable that makes it feel like a particular time-waster.

And we're not making any friends at all by having to interact with fourteen glowy spots instead of three down in the mines.

I dont trust him either and am unconvinced this is anything but bandwagoning, for dem views! Especially since over time seeing enough of his content, he seems to be one of those poor souls longing for the days when a new hardcore pvp mmo pop'd up over and over (cause the ones that came before kept dying to make room for the new ones) and wants to relive or reexperience the "good old days of mmos! Cause all modern ones are dumb poopy because im a GARDCORE PVP MAN YEAAAAAAAAAH"

If you have eyes and a brain, you may have realized I'm so fucking over those type, who want a return to an era that wouldn't be as profitable so companies dont do it anymore... not to mention pvp focused mmos always die faster then a pve one. Shocker that people dont wanna be corpse camped by others for 4 hours cause timmy got bullied in school and is finally enacting his revenge on humanity.

Became more of a rant on the type of person he is but yeah I doubt hes actually giving a shit and is for the money. Which hey if not cool... but hes as trustworthy as an Ul'dan merchant.