Mordion Gaol is a bad system

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

the issue is literally not knowing what you did wrong.

responses like this help nobody to improve their behaviour.

Like, seriously people, are you listening to yourselves? Are responses like this really good examples of what model behaviour should be? If this is how people who don't get banned act, don't you think that would actually encourage people to become more toxic instead of less?

God, I don't even doubt the fact OP probably did something to deserve it (not that I can check this) but these responses are ridiculous.

Why are we defending corporations and system blindly out of obligation, again? Are we just going to assume that a person in authority is always correct, no matter the circumstance? History has had plenty of tyrants with authorities, so I'm less sure about this than you. And yes, this is a virtual videogame with cat and bunnygirls running around; it doesn't carry nearly the weight or import of an authoritarian and suppressive government. That doesn't change the fact the underlying mentality here is the same.

Are you all against the concepts of a state-appointed lawyer, by any chance? For people to have the right to defend themselves? Because responses in this thread really give me a lot of "shoot first, don't ask questions" vibes, gonna be real.

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The problem here, is there is a clear set of defined rules.

The GM went over the report, decided he violated those rules, and put him in jail.

He isn't going to be able to dispute that. That's not changing.

This is how every online game I've ever played has been.

They don't tell you what you did for the offense (outside the specific ToS violation) to prevent witch hunts, which you say are happening in this thread for some reason.

This isn't some new thing. Its been this way for what, 10 years now? almost 8 if you don't count 1.0.

The OP knows what the rules are. We all do. And sure, you can be having a bad day. Doesn't change the rules. Just dont say anything if you are having issues. Or log off.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The problem here, is there is a clear set of defined rules.

The GM went over the report, decided he violated those rules, and put him in jail.

He isn't going to be able to dispute that. That's not changing.

This is how every online game I've ever played has been.

They don't tell you what you did for the offense (outside the specific ToS violation) to prevent witch hunts, which you say are happening in this thread for some reason.

This isn't some new thing. Its been this way for what, 10 years now? almost 8 if you don't count 1.0.

The OP knows what the rules are.

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The thread title is "The Mordion Gaol is a bad system."

The OP gives his reasonings why based on an anecdote of him getting banned and how this didn't really help him know what he did wrong.

The first response is "lmao yeah it's a bad system, I would've just banned you" with more likes than most anything else in the thread, followed up by "you know what you did" with an almost equal number. And yes, I do think likes are important- it's a measure to see how most people reading the thread feel.

The system being 10 or 8 years old doesn't change that its been flawed for those 8 or 10 years. The OP having been banned doesn't mean you should outright dismiss him without hearing him out.

I'd like a caring, listening community. Dunking on the guy just because he got in trouble once and dismissing everything he says for it is reductionist and I'm not fond of it.

You could easily have a discussion on the merits of the gaol system, but nobody seems to be interested in actually doing it. Instead, everyone seems more content to just tell OP to shut up because he got punished.

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

The thread title is "The Mordion Gaol is a bad system."

The OP gives his reasonings why based on an anecdote of him getting banned and how this didn't really help him know what he did wrong.

The first response is "lmao yeah it's a bad system, I would've just banned you" with more likes than most anything else in the thread, followed up by "you know what you did" with an almost equal number. And yes, I do think likes are important- it's a measure to see how most people reading the thread feel.

The system being 10 or 8 years old doesn't change that its been flawed for those 8 or 10 years. The OP having been banned doesn't mean you should outright dismiss him without hearing him out.

I'd like a caring, listening community. Dunking on the guy just because he got in trouble once and dismissing everything he says for it is reductionist and I'm not fond of it.

You could easily have a discussion on the merits of the gaol system, but nobody seems to be interested in actually doing it. Instead, everyone seems more content to just tell OP to shut up because he got punished.

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I gave the merits. You don't get instabanned. You get to talk to a GM. Sometimes it reverse the punishments, when things are taken out of context.

You'll note that OP said they have been having issues outside the game recently that most likely involved them saying something in game they shouldn't have. That doesn't change the rules.

The OP was treated fairly. Everyone knows how to contact a GM. Or they should. And GM's usually respond within an hour. Every experience I've had has resulted in that. Sure, they could have a window pop up with a contact GM button. I don't think they use the jails enough to warrant the investment in dev time, but it could be argued.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I gave the merits.

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Sure. But here's some choice quotes.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Don’t break the rules and you don’t go there. Never been there in all the years I played.

I agree it’s a bad system though. I would have just banned you.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

You know why, clearly. You said you were put there for "offensive content/language". Don't use that kind of language around people you don't know. There's your transparency.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

Should be retitled "Mordion Gaol is working as intended".

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Originally Posted by Reap00

You do the crime. You do the time. The company owes you nothing. You know what you did. You knew what you did was against the rules. Next!

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Then again, re-reading some of these names, I guess I'm the clown here. Folk like Vickii, Doozer and Reap are known for starting shit lmao.

I was going to make a point, but I think it's funnier to keep me destroying my own point in here and taking the L. Have a nice day.

Good write ups Ammokkx, I can only like them once

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Originally Posted by Jin-

Good write ups Ammokkx, I can only like them once

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appreciate it, but I was arguing a strawman to the wrong person lmao

I got baited by some of the most notorious personalities on the forums and then decided to extrapolate their bad behaviour onto others. Not quite ace detective work on my end, I'm afraid.

I can't help but question if the MMOs that opt to not be transparent about offenses are actually prone to having people subjected to witch hunting more often.

The problem with XIV's approach is that you're not even necessarily protecting anyone by refusing to divulge the exact nature of an offense. Case in point, the whole Arthars incident that led to a severely underperforming player being targeted/harassed outside of the game without any actual proof they were the one who reported him in the first place as they were not the only PUGs in that particular party.

If witch hunting happens, it's usually because someone outed themselves as the potential reporter of an offender intentionally or otherwise, and thus was likely to happen regardless of XIV's transparency policy. On the other hand, if someone says something they had genuinely no idea was offensive enough to be punishable, then gets silently reported by someone in a huge public channel like an alliance raid, Novice Network, or a capital city (Which incidentally, is where you're most likely to actually offend someone), the risk of a witch hunt happening basically doesn't exist and the player is simply left feeling utterly bewildered about what they did wrong.

I feel like it's a net negative, personally.

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

The thread title is "The Mordion Gaol is a bad system."

The OP gives his reasonings why based on an anecdote of him getting banned and how this didn't really help him know what he did wrong.

The first response is "lmao yeah it's a bad system, I would've just banned you" with more likes than most anything else in the thread, followed up by "you know what you did" with an almost equal number. And yes, I do think likes are important- it's a measure to see how most people reading the thread feel.

The system being 10 or 8 years old doesn't change that its been flawed for those 8 or 10 years. The OP having been banned doesn't mean you should outright dismiss him without hearing him out.

I'd like a caring, listening community. Dunking on the guy just because he got in trouble once and dismissing everything he says for it is reductionist and I'm not fond of it.

You could easily have a discussion on the merits of the gaol system, but nobody seems to be interested in actually doing it. Instead, everyone seems more content to just tell OP to shut up because he got punished.

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Sincerely, thank you. You have no idea how overjoyed I am to see this reply. I wish the forum didn't have so many people bullying, and being negative to people that don't deserve it, but here we are. That's a consequence to a badly utilized system revolving around the ToS. While I won't deny the reality that toxic people are everywhere, and no amount of punishment will ever truly put an end to it, you'd think people would be more in line if it was actually working. Clearly something is not.

And that's just the forums. I've heard horror stories of people committing criminal acts in game, which is definitely possible. Hitting on minors for instance often will go unpunished. I've heard horror stories of people reporting it, and then being frustrated that nothing ever happened to the person. With nothing to go off of besides the known age and behavior, a lot of people can't get law enforcement for example. SE needs to step up their game. I'm concerned that they take things way out of proportion, are not clear enough on their jail system, and that the worst people aren't being dealt with enough. I think that even just a simple small section for the website, that specifies what happens when you go to the jail, would help a lot.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I gave the merits. You don't get instabanned. You get to talk to a GM. Sometimes it reverse the punishments, when things are taken out of context.

You'll note that OP said they have been having issues outside the game recently that most likely involved them saying something in game they shouldn't have. That doesn't change the rules.

The OP was treated fairly. Everyone knows how to contact a GM. Or they should. And GM's usually respond within an hour. Every experience I've had has resulted in that. Sure, they could have a window pop up with a contact GM button. I don't think they use the jails enough to warrant the investment in dev time, but it could be argued.

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Not what I meant. I meant in regard to the forum post being a bit dramatic in places, that it could be an effect of my poor mental state at the current time. The Mordion Gaol incident likely happened the day before my mental state started to derail. I went to bed and awoke to being in jail when I logged into the game.

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Cancel culture is incredibly rampant

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Um.

Mordion has been here for a long time, and pre dates "cancel culture" by about ten years or more.