Can we please put Coils of Bahamut in normal raid roulette?

They can make EX and Savage roulettes. They'll just be dead, and when they do pop it'll likely be 8 newer players who don't know any better who wipe for the entirety of the instance...and then never queue again.

Savage in general just doesn't lend itself to a roulette format. Generally you want to queue for the same fight over and over until you've gotten the mechanics down to clear the fight. Even in an organized group, it can take weeks or months to get through a savage tier. Imagine queuing for a roulette and getting t5; you get lucky and the group sticks together for the whole instance and you learn a good chunk. You don't clear before the timer is up. You queue again, because you want your roulette reward. This time it's t7, a completely different fight you need to learn, probably with completely different people. You probably wont clear. Hell, you could have an entire group of people who have cleared every savage fight in the game and they still might struggle to coordinate well enough to clear within the time limit.

Best thing to do is use party finder. If you want to go synched, you'll have to find a group of people willing to commit a good chunk of time to learning and clearing the fights. It's not impossible, but it will take more searching- check out fellowships and be patient in PF if this is your goal. If you just want to see the story you can pretty easily find people willing to undersize/unsynch the content and steamroll through (most) of it.

That's exactly what will happen, a savage/extreme roulette is a waste of resources. Although probably easy to make, they will just be pointless.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

The problem is that some people aren't willing to try and expect everyone else to carry them .-.
If people want to clear Coil (now), it's better to just solo/duo it (trio for Avatar) at level 80. Heck, take a BLU with you for T9 to kill the giant Golem (they're the only Job capable of doing this thanks to Missile and Screwtail).

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You actually don't need 3 people for Avatar - you could duo it back in SB, skipping most stuff(solo was also possible, but it required to actually do mechanics and get lucky with server ticks), now it should be easily doable solo due to damage increase. Even Nael can be soloed with good gear right now.

So yeah, if you want to clear Coils you could just get to 80 and do it all alone with no one there to rush while you're watching cutscenes. Hell, it'll actually be more story-accurate, since it's supposed to be all secretive and you can take your sweet time walking around all the cool set pieces.

As someone who has raided all tiers, I disagree with people who say Coil is much more difficult.

I get the worry of clear rates going down and vote abandon and to some extent they're is truth to that argument but I think the player base overall has improved since then and can properly coordinate.

If you consider Eden normal, O12 normal, that much easy (pretty sure a lot of people still get clipped or die in O12N) I really don't know. People who are that scared of coil, honestly haven't did it synced in a very long time. The fights are laughable SYNCED + all the nerfs they got after intial release. You can still push phases and the bosses die before any major mechanics come into play, thanks to massive overgearing.

The only fights I can say represent something of a challenge still, are T9, T12 and T13 and the coordination required is nothing that can't be explained by even one vet.

Everything else is pretty normal by today's standards, nothing the average player on DF can't accomplish ESPECIALLY since most of the mechanics back then, have introduced themselves one way or another in future NORMAL fights. Y'all need to stop with the argument, "this is too difficult". Like it's not y'all, seriously.

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Originally Posted by Satarn

You actually don't need 3 people for Avatar - you could duo it back in SB, skipping most stuff(solo was also possible, but it required to actually do mechanics and get lucky with server ticks), now it should be easily doable solo due to damage increase. Even Nael can be soloed with good gear right now.

So yeah, if you want to clear Coils you could just get to 80 and do it all alone with no one there to rush while you're watching cutscenes. Hell, it'll actually be more story-accurate, since it's supposed to be all secretive and you can take your sweet time walking around all the cool set pieces.

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Oh you can? Only really tried to solo it and well... you can guess how well that went (Ballistic Missile instant death when failed).

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

As someone who has raided all tiers, I disagree with people who say Coil is much more difficult.

I get the worry of clear rates going down and vote abandon and to some extent they're is truth to that argument but I think the player base overall has improved since then and can properly coordinate.

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I have to disagree. Considering Orbonne Monastery is the first 24-man to ever be blessed with automatic 10% Echo, I have to disagree. Coordination is not that great even in normal mode raids—I doubt it would be better in the Coils.

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If you consider Eden normal, O12 normal, that much easy (pretty sure a lot of people still get clipped or die in O12N) I really don't know.

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But that’s the point: they’re easy, yet people still fail mechanics and die. I ran o12n for fun during 4.4~4.5, and the number of people I’d see die to simple things was astonishing. Now imagine them trying to do Coil mechanics. I don’t have that much faith that it would go over as smoothly as you think it would.

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People who are that scared of coil, honestly haven't did it synced in a very long time. The fights are laughable SYNCED + all the nerfs they got after intial release. You can still push phases and the bosses die before any major mechanics come into play, thanks to massive overgearing.

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No, they probably appreciate that coordination in DF is fairly abysmal nine times out of ten for fights that require a little bit of thought to them.

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The only fights I can say represent something of a challenge still, are T9, T12 and T13 and the coordination required is nothing that can't be explained by even one vet.

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I’ve been in EX primals in Mentor Roulette where veterans are explaining mechanics to players that haven’t been in them before, but the players still mess them up. I once spent 40 minutes in Shiva EX trying to explain to the new tanks that they needed to share the cleave she does in Sword phase. They died for 40 minutes straight because they never got it.

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Everything else is pretty normal by today's standards, nothing the average player on DF can't accomplish ESPECIALLY since most of the mechanics back then, have introduced themselves one way or another in future NORMAL fights. Y'all need to stop with the argument, "this is too difficult". Like it's not y'all, seriously.

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You have more faith in DF than I do. I don’t think having the Coils—or any Savage-tier content—in DF would go half as smooth as you’re assuring it will.

It's one thing to explain the coordination needed. By all rights, the mechanics should be simple enough to grasp (well, maybe not all, even I probably don't clearly know T12 and maybe others).

But the execution of that coordination is another matter. It's ridiculously simple to tell a group "Green meteors will go here, if you get a green meteor marker, stand here until it drops. Red meteors around the edge, at these points, DO NOT let any fall too close. Don't rush kill golems, they need to eat rocks first. Two rocks, and kill. More than that is a wipe. Don't let them get close, or it's a wipe."

Ok, that actually turned out to be a fair bit, but, still, I view that as fairly straightforward, know where to drop rocks. Hell, you can probably survive/heal through explosions even if they don't all get eaten at this point (unsynced).

But, it's still surprisingly difficult to get through that phase. Or was, last time I kept an eye out for it.

Point is, no, I don't think "raid roulette is supposed to be difficult." Just the opposite, really. Roulettes are there to fill queues and get players through content. The difficult stuff is the stuff that doesn't have a roulette. And unfortunately, some of Coils is better left out of roulette.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

You have more faith in DF than I do. I don’t think having the Coils—or any Savage-tier content—in DF would go half as smooth as you’re assuring it will.

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All I can honestly say, is that I have run FC members through these synced as recent as pre 5.0 and can confirm, these fights are very close to glorifed striking dummies with at max maybe seeing 1 or 2 mechanics that can actually cause a wipe for outright failing, that can't be healed through.

T1-> Literally no mechanics or pulling boss away needed, just burn

T2-> Burn nodes, Allagan Rot gets like 1 or 2 passes IF it even comes out, Burn boss

T4, Just AoE everything, spider feed to dreadnaught doesnt matter. Didnt matter at ilvl 90 either.

T5, literally a burn from 100% to divebombs, then far too much damage to even consider the snakes a mechanic.

T6-> Striking dummy, have to bait once maybe twice, kill bee

T7, Renaulds don't always one shot, petrify isnt instant death upon hit, Striking dummy + adds

T8, striking dummy, just need to do missles correctly.

T9 -> Truly the only fight that requires some coordination, for meteor drops, golem separation and chain pickup, pretty sure you can skip divebombs and fire ice mechanics are generally all in

T10-> striking dummy + adds, may get a charge +heat lightning

T11-> striking dummy + omega larboard starboard + tether groups

T12, striking dummy, 2- 3 birds ish, just place them apart, add phase you can aoe and still do fine. Fountain soaks, blue flame grabbed by range

T13, is a striking dummy with 2 to 3 mechanics, earth shaker baits/tornado baits, towers, and puddle baits.

Do them synced before questioning how hard these fights are to actually do. The overgearing + echo + nerfs makes them fairly doable by today's standards. Things like Titan and Eden Prime on average hit far harder and consistently.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

All I can honestly say, is that I have run FC members through these synced as recent as pre 5.0 and can confirm, these fights are very close to glorifed striking dummies with at max maybe seeing 1 or 2 mechanics that can actually cause a wipe for outright failing, that can't be healed through.

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And that's why you didn't have issues. You did it with your FC who most likely listened to your advice.

Some/most DF people don't realise chat exists... or that they're playing an MMO. Heck, some DF people don't even know how to play their Job at the bear minimum (BLM only casting Blizzard III and Fire III for example).

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

All I can honestly say, is that I have run FC members through these synced as recent as pre 5.0 and can confirm, these fights are very close to glorifed striking dummies with at max maybe seeing 1 or 2 mechanics that can actually cause a wipe for outright failing, that can't be healed through.

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Running them with a pre-made that knows to listen to mechanical explanations and callouts would certainly make them trivial. But we aren’t talking about running these with pre-mades: we’re talking about adding them to a Duty Finder roulette with random players of varying skill levels, and varying levels of listening to and actually following advice and explanations.

Do these fights with randoms sync’d before questioning how hard these fights would be in a DF Roulette setting. As you said, people still die to easy things in normal modes. You really think synced Coils (even with overgearing + Echo + nerfs) would be much different?