GIVE SCHOLAR BANE AND FIX ART OF WAR MP AND WE'LL BE FINE

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

I would really like to know where you are seeing people clamoring for a separation of SMN/SCH? Who exactly? Because everyone I know loves that connection.

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The problem is that the same solution 'headline' so to speak -- "Split SCH/SMN!" is used for a number of different perceived issues.

I, for instance, would prefer they have split experience after level 30, but have zero issues with their having shared Arcanist roots. I wouldn't even mind if they continue to have spells in common after level 30, though I personally don't find Shadowflare or Tri-bind necessary to SCH and thus wouldn't care if their shared lineage ends at Bane.

Others don't care at all about their experience, but just feel that SCH "isn't SCH enough" and SMN "isn't SMN enough" and blame the XIV iterations of each solely on the fact that the two jobs are connected, rather than what new and essentially separate designs for each that XIV saw fit to vaguely connect.

Others want them split from the start.

And yet any of these can still be claimed as one more opinion for whatever extent people personally prefer, especially if theirs is the most extreme (i.e. the last of the above).

I personally wanted them split when SE introduced jump potions. It just puts a negative monetary incentive on the two jobs. It’s best to remove that. I not saying they would ever exploit that by short changing one of those jobs. I’m saying the perception is bad.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The problem is that the same solution 'headline' so to speak -- "Split SCH/SMN!" is used for a number of different perceived issues.

I, for instance, would prefer they have split experience after level 30, but have zero issues with their having shared Arcanist roots. I wouldn't even mind if they continue to have spells in common after level 30, though I personally don't find Shadowflare or Tri-bind necessary to SCH and thus wouldn't care if their shared lineage ends at Bane.

Others don't care at all about their experience, but just feel that SCH "isn't SCH enough" and SMN "isn't SMN enough" and blame the XIV iterations of each solely on the fact that the two jobs are connected, rather than what new and essentially separate designs for each that XIV saw fit to vaguely connect.

Others want them split from the start.

And yet any of these can still be claimed as one more opinion for whatever extent people personally prefer, especially if theirs is the most extreme (i.e. the last of the above).

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I think the OG separation principle was just a technical one. I don't remember anyone caring much outside of some of the class quirks like SMN physic being pointless, etc. SE needed to make changes to separate some of the classes mechanics and here we are now.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

I think the OG separation principle was just a technical one. I don't remember anyone caring much outside of some of the class quirks like SMN physic being pointless, etc. SE needed to make changes to separate some of the classes mechanics and here we are now.

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At this point I am just going to assume SMN physick is designed to be pointless and, assuming I haven't already, will be removing it from my hotbar come Shadowbringers and the need to rearrange all my hotbars again.

Seriously, why wasnt there a trait for SMN that changed physick into sustain?

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Originally Posted by EaMett

I think the OG separation principle was just a technical one. I don't remember anyone caring much outside of some of the class quirks like SMN physic being pointless, etc. SE needed to make changes to separate some of the classes mechanics and here we are now.

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It was mostly non-SMN/SCHs complaining that SMN/SCHs "got two jobs at the price of one".

And at this point, Physick is kept useless more as a reminder than out of need. They could trait or hidden-trait it at any time to make it instead work off Intelligence when on Summoner.

Personally, I'm fine with direct heals belonging solely to Red Mage, though. I don't like that Summoner's access to survival tools will be obscured and clunky at best, but, I don't think every job needs their own survival tool, especially when so many of them are almost only either superfluous or useless (looking at you 10% mitigation skills).

WAIT UNTIL SHADOWBRINGERS COMES OUT! Seriously guys, at least WAIT to see how we are at endgame and in dungeons in SH before asking for things like this...we don't know how much healing we're going to have to be doing, for all we know we won't have much time to do any DPSing at all.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

WAIT UNTIL SHADOWBRINGERS COMES OUT! Seriously guys, at least WAIT to see how we are at endgame and in dungeons in SH before asking for things like this...we don't know how much healing we're going to have to be doing, for all we know we won't have much time to do any DPSing at all.

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The problem here, is that, if we're really healing as constantly as you're thinking we're going to need to, then our MP costs need to come down significantly, or else we won't keep up with the demand.
So either way, there are problems. And since the Dev team won't even try to address the complaining that's happening at the moment, in any capacity, it's coming across that they know that they've done something shitty to the healer jobs and just don't care.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

WAIT UNTIL SHADOWBRINGERS COMES OUT! Seriously guys, at least WAIT to see how we are at endgame and in dungeons in SH before asking for things like this...we don't know how much healing we're going to have to be doing, for all we know we won't have much time to do any DPSing at all.

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So which is it? Wait until ShB comes out or wait until Endgame? Keep moving those goalposts. Because this is the EXACT same story the white knights have brought out for the past two expansions.

It's pre-patch, don't worry about the mechanics, they'll change the potencies!
It's just early access, wait until full release, thinks can change!
It's just release, wait until you're max lvl before you give feedback!
You're max lvl , wait until the first Ex tier before you complain!
C'mon guys, wait until the first savage tier before you judge!
Ok, we know things have been bad for 6 months, but they're listening! Give them a few more months.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

So which is it? Wait until ShB comes out or wait until Endgame? Keep moving those goalposts. Because this is the EXACT same story the white knights have brought out for the past two expansions.

It's pre-patch, don't worry about the mechanics, they'll change the potencies!
It's just early access, wait until full release, thinks can change!
It's just release, wait until you're max lvl before you give feedback!
You're max lvl , wait until the first Ex tier before you complain!
C'mon guys, wait until the first savage tier before you judge!
Ok, we know things have been bad for 6 months, but they're listening! Give them a few more months.

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Here is the problem, we don't know how much healing we're going to be doing. If we ask for these changes, and then get them, but it turns out we have no time to use them due to lots of healing, then there was no point in getting them. If we wait, it's as bad as we think, and then we ask for this, we'll be justified in getting it instead of all this looking like knee-jerk reactions from the healing community QQing because of a change that we don't know the full scope of until Shadowbringers.