Why Eureka is a worse form of the Diadem IMO

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Originally Posted by Remedi

You and I agree on that one, as said there are plenty of wrongs on Eureka, it's simply I cannot pass on the basic game design flaws that diadem had

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It's just that Eureka has many of the same flaws, and some which (just my opinion) are worse, yet people many people give Eureka a pass, when I feel like it's no better than the diadem. They repeated many of the Diadems mistakes, while adding it's own (like the god-awful afk trains).

I told you why, they did not make the same mistake of splitting the playerbase and making the entry unresonable like before, those points are extremely important and shouldn't be underestimated, the fact that as soon as you get to 70 you are ready to go in compared to needing essentially close to high end gear is a critical mistake on design that was not repeated.

However pagos does rapresent a possible repetition on that, since adding a new zone does have an impact on the existing one and if the relic requires only the new zone to proceed and the old ones doesn't receive any updates I don't really see how long that zone might last wich will impact new players and also not adding armor is a terrible ideas that impacts usefulness of the whole relic, not to mention a slap in the face on ppl that have got the gear, I can guess they didn't want to overshadow sigmascape gear but srsly it was an interesting idea and they should've experimented with it

I will say that the fact that Eureka is unlocked trough a quest also helped visibility of it, I won't be surprised if ppl didn't even know of the exdistance of diadem

I'm not sure if Diadem really split the player-base that much though. It theoretically appealed to more players. You got the lower level gearers (for the 180 stuff), Higher end (with the 210 stuff), gatherers, crafters, and the ones who wanted the pegasus mount, those who farmed spoils to trade in for mats to sell. Also, iirc you got a fair amount of tomes for doing it.

Who does Eureka appeal to? Low-end gearing, and those who want to do the relic. I guess people who also want the minions, glamours and the mount. That's pretty much it.

Something else not mentioned yet (i dont think) is the way in which you enter.

Diadem:
- Needed a scroll item to participate from a special vendor (after doing the quest to unlock it)
- Have to queue up via a Duty Finder-esque matchmaking system.
- Once in, you are automatically in a party, not sure if there was a way to drop party or add to a party, while within the instance.
- Instance has a linear flow, Go in, do fates, spawn boss, complete instance, IF enough people stick around there was a chance of a special event but it wasnt guarenteed and players all dropped before it proc'd.

Eureka
- do quest, unlock
- talk to NPC (must be present at the NPC's location) to queue for Eureka.
- Instant entry
- Start instance solo, form parties within.
- People come and go, parties form and break constantly, but the instance carries on.

There is a fluidity to Eureka that you dont have in any other content, short of the Hunt train, but that has even less teeth to it than Eureka does. Honestly though, I'm kinda surprised Diadem hasnt been just removed. Its so obsolete now, even the random stat rewards didnt grow with the patches so it was dead by the next iLev upgrade.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

- Once in, you are automatically in a party, not sure if there was a way to drop party or add to a party, while within the instance.
- Instance has a linear flow, Go in, do fates, spawn boss, complete instance, IF enough people stick around there was a chance of a special event but it wasnt guarenteed and players all dropped before it proc'd.

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On the first one, if anyone in your party left, your party would permanently be missing a member/multiple members and could not invite/be invited if you were the last person remaining.
For the second, in Diadem 2.0, you didn't even spawn bosses. You just did some quests, do FATE's to build up enough somethings to progress with the quest, finish that and then stay (for 5 seconds) to do the NM FATE's that would maybe spawn probably. Bonus points if the Emergency Mission happened (literally never for me).

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Bonus points if the Emergency Mission happened (literally never for me).

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IIRC it would happen once per instance, in the hard mode one.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I'm not sure if Diadem really split the player-base that much though. It theoretically appealed to more players. You got the lower level gearers (for the 180 stuff), Higher end (with the 210 stuff), gatherers, crafters, and the ones who wanted the pegasus mount, those who farmed spoils to trade in for mats to sell. Also, iirc you got a fair amount of tomes for doing it.

Who does Eureka appeal to? Low-end gearing, and those who want to do the relic. I guess people who also want the minions, glamours and the mount. That's pretty much it.

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To get inside Diadem your avg ilvl had to be ilvl 179 which normally would translate to all items 180 and 1 ring 179 or so as such you only pursued 180 as trash items or if you really wanted to min max 180 gear for some reasons, 3.1 unlocked also gordias normal which was giving 190 ilvl gear and required 170, in fact the whole game was locked behind the 170 ilvl barrier, what Diadem HAD to do was to set the barrier to 142 and allow you to skip the gearing up trough tomestones, there was no other way to unlock stuffs in game but tomestones or if you were rich crafted items, but a newly 60 wouldn't really be that rich.

The low end gearing of Eureka is not as bad as you make it out to be, for startes the reward is on par with uncapped tomestones and then you have a somehwat quick way to cap weekly tomestones if you so wish, as such the reward structure is much better than diadem, it offers an alternative in the way the game works if you wish so.

Also Mageblack brings out another problem that diadem had and that Eureka resolved, if some1 dropped the party your farming was screwed because it could lead to not beign able to do enough dmg to receive validity to loot and wasting anyone time.

While I understand that what you say it's how you feel about the content compared to diadem, there are simply some aspects of it that really ARE much worse than Eureka, Eureka's problems are mostly lacking content in it, the foundation in it is better and shows some improvements, remember I enjoyed diadem during it's prime time and had good times, but I need to distance myself from that analyze the facts

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

IIRC it would happen once per instance, in the hard mode one.

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But because it's random when it happens, there's a chance your party would leave once they're done before it even happens.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, people play poorly. They'd rather stay AFK and gain pitiful experience points and no crystal from high level NM instead of actually targeting monsters of the appropriate level and gain much higher Xp/Protean crystal per hour.

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When the alternative is killing mindless trash mobs with no mechanics beyond auto attacks, I don't blame people for preferring to AFK and collect rewards while playing on their phones or alt-tabbing to reddit or the forums. If they made trash mobs more interesting, people wouldn't be so opposed to grinding them.

I enjoyed Diadem more tbh. When entering for the first time I was at my full strength which I earned by leveling the job to max level, and could fly straight into battle. Notice how I used the the words fly straight instead of run a convoluted path around mountains and cliffs which only have the one purpose of wasting my time. There were treasures to find, objectives to do and a large scale boss fight (quite fun too) with a powerful but not game breaking reward.

In Eureka there are fairies which are usually not worth missing out on the incoming fate, one time quests and being too underpowered to make any meaningful contribution. Finally at level 19-20 I could at least help with farming but then found out the final battle had no more mechanics than hunt and fate bosses. I wish they had made something like the emergency mission in place of Pazuzu.

If we could spend uncapped tomes on relic gear and weapons I think I would have skipped Eureka. Similarly, if we could earn relics in Diadem I would rather go back there. Think about being able to gather Anemos Crystals from DoL nodes or get them from chests as well as from fates in Diadem, or being able to get Pazu feathers from the emergency mission. If Diadem had the flexible group forming system that Eureka has it would be a better place to farm relics, imho.