Confessions of a Toxic Elitist

OP,i dont want to be mean,but you're kind of a joke,telling that "im an elitist" event hough you never check yourself is just total nonsense,an elitist is someone who check his performance regulary,try to improve,someone who say that people suck and their are the best are dumbass.

So yeah the big thing is,you were never an elitist to start with,cause you do not have an high level of profiencency with your class,you were just someone who was ranting and feeling like an elitist for nothing.

Riyah you are just wrong and im posting this because as someone who has been playing league of legends for years when I first started in season 3 I placed silver next year in season 4 plat and season 5 diamond 2. Literally going from near the bottom to top 2% of the overall community at the time by improving my skills and knowledge of the game. Even overwatch started around plat and after about a year managed to hit grandmaster. Without a doubt there is always room for improvement in anything if you are willing to improve.

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Originally Posted by Gleipni

an elitist is someone who check his performance regulary,try to improve,someone who say that people suck and their are the best are dumbass.

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Different people have different colloquial definitions of the term "elitist." If we want to go by the strictest definition, an elitist is somebody who believes that the elite should be the leaders of society, so one can be an elitist without being, themselves, elite.

If we carry that to video games, one can be elitist by idolizing elites, without being an elite. This can carry over to trying to emulate those same elites, thinking mimicry without understanding will give them the same proficiency.

Besides all of which, I don't think Kaiva claimed to be an elitist so much as she'd been called an elitist so much she just gave up arguing with it.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

IAre you saying that there is a pinnacle, a zenith even, to human capability in anything, including videogames? A point where people reach perfection and improvement is no longer possible?

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Yes, based on the individual. Not perfection, but people realize their full potential. What's worse, especially for videogames, you decline, too.

You advance to beat the last tier of savage. That's great. You try ultimate, it kicks your butt. You either put in some seriously hard work improving (and its never easy to improve once you hit your talent's limit) and maybe, stars aligning you beat ultimate.

Then some GC beats it with only one healer. It never ends. If you play games a lot, you realize that some people simply are insanely good, beyond what you can do. It's not a bad thing, but its just intensely frustrating to try and rank yourself in any game because of this. It can be even worse in games like Overwatch, where people are declining in rank solely because everyone else is too good; the player who managed to dip into gold ranking last season is now low silver. You have to make peace with how good you are at some point, or its just endless frustration.

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Riyah, this is a fantasy world you've constructed for yourself. I can't argue this point because it's not a point to argue, it's an impossibly vague possibility scenario that assumes the worst of humanity.

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This is a game in which people have seriously argued that if your friend isn't good enough to beat the savage content you want to beat, you stop playing with your friend in it in order to beat the content if he can't get good. This is a genre, where in the archetypical MMO, players found a way to gank the game designer when he popped into game (Lord British and Ultima Online) and went and did it. In this specific game, we have players that are perfectly happy to use bots, exploits like ungermax and pod pomanders, and more. I feel the only reason it isn;t any worse is that you don't really need to rely on other players that much to do things; the aspects of this game where you do are savage and feast pvp, and both can get real nasty real quick. I don't share your faith in people.

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Originally Posted by Bernkastelx

Even overwatch started around plat and after about a year managed to hit grandmaster. Without a doubt there is always room for improvement in anything if you are willing to improve.

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I'm not saying there is no improvement, I'm saying eventually it stops and you either play overwatch for fun, or they are going to hate it because they can't be like you and improve to the top 1% of the playerbase. There are a lot of people on OW reddit who get really tilted, sad, angry, or despairing about their MMR, because they make it a goal to keep improving and can't. The whole competitive ranking aspect actually can harm their enjoyment of the game because they can't get past MMR to fun. Eventually they quit, or just ditch competitive, or stay and get really bitter. If the goal is just to climb to grandmaster, and you really cap out at plat or maybe diamond, you make peace with that or it gets bad.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I'm sorry...what?

Are you saying that there is a pinnacle, a zenith even, to human capability in anything, including videogames? A point where people reach perfection and improvement is no longer possible?

EDIT: Actually, there are two times I firmly believe when people stop improving. When they give up on themselves, and when they die.

Maybe it's a noose for you. The drive to improve, for me, is the reason I do anything in life.

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Well she's not entirely wrong about saying that at some point, some people will stop improving.
Not because it is a natural thing, but because they think they don't need to improve anymore, or that the effort put into becoming better will go unrewarded and then, to waste.
Is it good or bad ? I don't know, but from my experience, it is a fact.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Riyah, this is a fantasy world you've constructed for yourself. I can't argue this point because it's not a point to argue, it's an impossibly vague possibility scenario that assumes the worst of humanity.

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Thing is, it is no fantasy... OP's post is in fact about him reflecting on his conduct, which was quite exactly what Riyah was describing.
It's as if elitists weren't aware of how offending they can be and how it is perceived by people around them.
And it offends people even more, when elitists are suddenly surprised at how aggressive the response they are getting are, of how people are attacking them on matters they consider the 101.
You'll understand that people don't want to be told off by a player, who could potentially just be a 12 y.o kid sqatting his mom work computer right ?

This whole discussion is in fact the same discussion as with healers that DPS and those that don't.
The core of the problem are players that expect too much from others, and can't understand that each and everyone have different mindset while playing that game : some play it competitively, and some just to kill time...

I'm not sure if contributing my own experiences will be helpful or not, but here goes. I can definitely relate to feeling like I should be better than I am. In some ways, I feel like I've been conditioned to believe I have to be perfect or I'm not pulling my weight, which is of course silly. I've been through a fair share of humbling moments in the time I've been playing, and I've had my confidence shaken to the point of being afraid to try again with some things. But I also have to remember that I've only been playing the game for barely half a year altogether, with only the ability to put in maybe a few hours a day if that. It was only a few months ago when I first tried out Lakshmi/Susano EX. Heck, I've only played SMN for around a month and a half. I have to remind myself I can't expect to be perfect, especially when I've only really just started to get into higher challenge content and learn more about my job.

I'm far from perfect, but I know I'm improving. I've been practicing rotations, asking for advice when I feel stuck, going over guides for my job, and keeping up on gear/material as best as I can. My new FC and static group have been very supportive and helpful as well. When things get rough, I try to take a breath, collect myself, see what things I'm doing wrong and find out how I can improve. Sometimes if I feel like I'm getting too worried I take a break for a day or two to recover so I can start again fresh.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's not necessarily a bad thing to know that you aren't perfect. No one's really perfect, really. Learning and improving can be a difficult road sometimes, and it can be hard to break bad habits when you learn you have them. But when you can see improvement, and know you're making progress, it can feel very rewarding, even if it's only a small success. As long as you do your best and try to learn from your mistakes you'll do fine, I think. Idk, I hope I didn't ramble too much, and I hope that helps in some way.

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Originally Posted by Jiao

Would you use a hammer to drill a hole?
FFlogs is a tool, incredibly useful when used correctly.
(Disclaimer, everything I'm about to say is dependent on my information being correct, FFlogs gets really fussy with my phone.)
You have a single recorded kill each on Phantom Train and Demon Chaddernook as SMN. That sample size is far too small to be anywhere indicative of how well you perform.
Furthermore, both of those kills are from March 7th which is really late into the tier. You aren't just ranked against SMN of similar gear level, you are ranked against all SMN who upload. Get some more kills under your belt and start to look for an upward swing in your numbers.

Ideally what you want to see is a steady increase in your performance after each kill. Have a "Just a little bit better this time" attitude.

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There's two types of Lies. Lies, and statistics.

While OP, if you got a 9% run or two, you're certainly below average, in all likelihood given the factors here, as well as other things that might not be visible (IE, padding stats on adds, skipping Ghost phase etc) your 'real' comparison to how you are against other SMNs is likely a bit higher. But if you decide to want to improve, there's definitely always an avenue for that. Improve if you want to. If you're clearing content at a comfortable pace for you and your group, then there's never a problem.

I do want to say though this has nothing about Kaiva improving...I got sidetracked because I don't like ranking and I think it causes a lot of pain through increased competitiveness, and I really don't like it when communities make rankings the sign of player worth. I know some people say they use it for good purposes, but I often see otherwise. The whole rank and status game is really nasty at times, and that's why I so fiercely react against it whenever it comes up here. I don't think it's good to feel depressed when you try your best, and I hope Kaiva goes beyond that to find fun in the improvement she does do.

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Originally Posted by Moogly

Well she's not entirely wrong about saying that at some point, some people will stop improving.
Not because it is a natural thing, but because they think they don't need to improve anymore, or that the effort put into becoming better will go unrewarded and then, to waste.
Is it good or bad ? I don't know, but from my experience, it is a fact.

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Well, yes. I acknowledged this in the edit. People can stop improving if they give up, and they can give up for any reason including thinking they're already good enough and don't need to improve.

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Thing is, it is no fantasy... OP's post is in fact about him reflecting on his conduct, which was quite exactly what Riyah was describing.

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And then it changes to status games, to exalting your own ranking, to complaining about the noobs and the weak link in your party when you realize they can't improve, and to your level either.

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OP isn't exalting her own ranking, she's not complaining about noobs or the weak link in the party. OP's post is actually her reflecting on the idea of a small fish dropping into a big pond, and finding she isn't the biggest fish after all, which is common for anyone who joins a new community, let alone a competitive one.

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You'll understand that people don't want to be told off by a player, who could potentially just be a 12 y.o kid sqatting his mom work computer right ?

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So let me get the order of events right here:
OP makes a post asking people to share if they've ever felt like they were ever severely disillusioned about their performance. Riyah, two pages in, calls everybody using FFLogs a moron, and declares they should be playing for fun (nevermind the fact some people find fine tuning performance fun). Yet...elitists are the people telling people off here?

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This whole discussion is in fact the same discussion as with healers that DPS and those that don't.
The core of the problem are players that expect too much from others, and can't understand that each and everyone have different mindset while playing that game : some play it competitively, and some just to kill time...

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I think you're reading more into this discussion than is actually here. In this thread, in particular, before Riyah came in here complaining, we're talking about people being disillusioned by their own performance. Not how they expect more of other players.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I got sidetracked because I don't like ranking and I think it causes a lot of pain through increased competitiveness, and I really don't like it when communities make rankings the sign of player worth. I know some people say they use it for good purposes, but I often see otherwise.

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It wasn't just you who got sidetracked, you sidetracked the whole thread.

I get your personal philosophy. I disagree with it, but I understand where you're coming from. You can't expect to fiercely react without a fierce counter-reaction to it though.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Has anybody here dealt with something related to this? Like, you think you're good at your job, and then something - whether it be friends, FC mates, your own logs, etc. - shows you that you're not even close to the average baseline?

I'm curious. Mind sharing with me?

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1. World of Warcraft - 2010.
   MP management? Listen buddy, I'll have you know in Scarlet Monastery somebody told me I was the best priest they've ever seen, so I don't need you to tell me how to heal.
   You have been removed from the guild.
2. Stepmania Online - 2013.
   Well, this is my first time playing online but since I'm already good at WoW, a much harder game, this should be easy. I'm really good at this song too so I should beat a couple of these guys.
   Finishes in last place. By a lot.
3. Street Fighter V - 2016.
   I can play really well against the computer so I should at least be able to beat some people new to the game online like me.
   You lose.
4. AST Anything - 2017.
   Street Fighter sucks. Cards are where it's at.
   "Reset guys, replacing this AST."
5. SCH. Neo Exdeath - 2017.
   Well, that was difficult but I think I did as much dps as I could. I don't really see where else it would be safe to cast, but that was the first clear so I guess I hit around 60%.
   11% Parse.
   "Maybe I'm just retarded."
6. SCH. God Kefka - 2018.
   Well, that was difficult but I think I did as much dps as I could. I don't really see where else it would be safe to cast, but that was the first clear so I guess I hit around 40%.
   19% Parse.
   "FFLogs, more like FULogs..."

But yeah, I think it's normal for your confidence to take a hit when your perspective shifts from a personal one to a global one. Think it's important to keep a couple things in mind:

• Having the will to improve already puts 30%+ at your fingertips with a bit of effort.
• If you're at 9% it's much more likely there's something you're not doing at all, rather than doing something poorly. It's just a lack of knowledge that can be easily fixed by watching a rotation video and copying it a few times, and making sure you're doing it as much as possible during a fight.
• That 9% is just that parse's ranking, not your ranking as a player. If one guy parsed 5k dps 98 times, you parsed 4.9k 1 time, and someone else parsed 1.5k 1 time, you'll be 2% while the guy below you is 1%. It's not an accurate representation of where you stand in general, just where that parse stands compared to all parses for your job.

Keep at it, it just takes some practice.