[Spoilers] Is Hydaelyn a primal?

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Except Solus specifically said "Through prayer and sacrifice", which I assume means the aether was acquired through blood sacrifice, like what the people of Eulmore are doing to feed the Sin Eaters.

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Hm, that's fair then, guess I don't remember the trailer all that well. In that case though, Rosie's point of "it's hard to think of a logical explanation for their existence as primals" doesn't seem very sturdy anyway, because we're told for a fact that beings existed prior, so what's there to be confused about? A piece of lore not being filled out's a lot different than an actual plothole, us not knowing who summoned them doesn't mean it's a reason for them to not be primals.

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Originally Posted by Akonyl

Hm, that's fair then, guess I don't remember the trailer all that well. In that case though, Rosie's point of "it's hard to think of a logical explanation for their existence as primals" doesn't seem very sturdy anyway, because we're told for a fact that beings existed prior, so what's there to be confused about? A piece of lore not being filled out's a lot different than an actual plothole, us not knowing who summoned them doesn't mean it's a reason for them to not be primals.

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Eeehhh, to be fair, I'm likely over thinking things. My biggest question in regards to them being 'primals' is, why would you summon Zodiark? But, that feels like a downward spiral of a question. So, while I still think Solus is messing with us, I will wait to see what we get.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

Eeehhh, to be fair, I'm likely over thinking things. My biggest question in regards to them being 'primals' is, why would you summon Zodiark? But, that feels like a downward spiral of a question. So, while I still think Solus is messing with us, I will wait to see what we get.

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For the same reasons a group of ascians would want him to overtake hydaelyn I guess. Also we know Zodiark and Hydealyn used to be a single entity and we don't really know what caused them to split yet. That entity is most likely what was summoned in the first place.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

Eeehhh, to be fair, I'm likely over thinking things. My biggest question in regards to them being 'primals' is, why would you summon Zodiark? But, that feels like a downward spiral of a question. So, while I still think Solus is messing with us, I will wait to see what we get.

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I think we have to stop thinking of Zodiark as evil or the bad guy. We don't really know his story aside from what little ascians have told us. This expansion really can help answer a lot of questions that the playerbase might have about both Hydaelyn and Zodiark. There has to be more than just a good vs. evil narrative. Hydaelyn clearly has her own agenda and us WoLs have been blindly following it. There has to be a reason why Hydaelyn went apeshit and sealed away Zodiark, weakening herself and throwing everything out of balance.

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Originally Posted by Akonyl

Hm, that's fair then, guess I don't remember the trailer all that well. In that case though, Rosie's point of "it's hard to think of a logical explanation for their existence as primals" doesn't seem very sturdy anyway, because we're told for a fact that beings existed prior, so what's there to be confused about? A piece of lore not being filled out's a lot different than an actual plothole, us not knowing who summoned them doesn't mean it's a reason for them to not be primals.

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Knowing FF, and this is just one massive exceptionally loose and fast spitball:

There was once a world, long the world lasted and a great civilization rested upon it- as is the FF way great power causes great destruction and the civilization began to fall and so great it's destruction that those who resided had little choice but to "reboot". To guide this reboot would be two entities of massive aether forced into balance, born from one source, that which seeks order and that which seeks chaos (neither necessarily "evil", light / dark). Chaos breaking things down and order building it up (that classic "imagine if nothing died" = "I guess death is good sometimes"). These two primals therefore made/summoned long ago for that purpose. If we go to the fullest extent that would mean a world full of chaos would be broken apart and one full of light (order) becoming one solid unit.. the result appearing fairly similar to one that is of both order and chaos lol (dead, big ol dead- different types of "cold death").

Unfortunately the math has gone bonkers and we've both shattered things and locked stuff away. Of course in the above when you primal summon you withdraw from the aether tank that started the rebooted universe, which is in finite supply (aether not being unlimited, but can cycle "lifestream") - like if you need to make houses you need to use resources. In this your home is a primal and that's fine, but people frivolously using resources of your home (summoning extra primals to fight each other).. that's bad (light and dark going out of control being different types of global warming I guess lol, but in moderation and with purpose consumption isn't necessarily bad). Also seems to me with Zodiark locked away that then his aether isn't being manipulated which is why we're always hurting our mother crystal (and why the Garlean Emperor is like "becoming whole would be so great *clenches fist angrily*").

So.. I imagine Ascians might either be agents of one of the Eldest primals (primal's primal, making perhaps us Hydaelyn's) or perhaps remnants of that pre-reboot civilization, hence the strong desire to restore balance (huge talking point). Perhaps the Mother Crystal having her own sort of Ascian ("The Twelve" or also ancient from the past civilization), that went against the original plan of balance perhaps due to Zodiark actions (political discord between the factions).

Edit: A thought on a possible political strife would be after the reboot one side found a way to rejoin the two primals or had always planned to (in order to return the world state, destroying all of the new humanity created in the reboot process of course), so the twelve decided in order to protect this new life that they'd lock away part of the equation (making a rejoining practically impossible and the new life a chance). I like that in that Zodiark, Zodiac.. Ark.., which may lend to Zodiark's purpose to rejoining the reboot and bringing the old civilization back. That would take away some of the moral ambiguity of Zodiark though (at least in the perspective of those lives who lived after the reboot). Zodiark making a move would be some of the ancient civilization then making the move to complete the reboot. Here Hydaelen is attempting to keep her own will and not rejoin with help of the twelve, and to protect her and her children's new life (not bring back old life), which is why she helps the 1st with her Minfilla (still stuff is going to chaos and messed up math, in part due to the Ascians trying to return aether source to it's original state). All of that would have a very FFIX feel to it, Ascians being like Genomes or Garland (an ancient of sorts). Further it would fit nicely with the whole essence not going back to the life stream and being drained from the environment (as relation to FFIX plot has done similar).

Gives me a bit of a Death Gate Cycle vibe lol (a book series). Also might consider a sort of Hive Mind / Kerrigan deal where Zodiark and Hydaelyn are Hive Minds created for the purpose of balance and Hydaelyn was like "yeah but no... here WoL come to momma, you're now my Kerrigan - go be naughty for me" (like Kerrigan then, the twelve, and others being able to do what she's not able to do-- like locking away Zodiark). Why the light hasn't taken all over would then be because the event took a lot out and if the Ascians don't beat the clock she'll slowly be able to overpower everyone (Ascians slowly losing footing). Also in that I'd say the two primals can't help their nature, a bit like the Hive Mind - a very intelligent machine bound to a cause (hello Alexander/Omega.. lol).

So I guess all aether exists through the two primals whose aether used to be one, what exists now is a marriage between the two although the system is now off course (imbalanced). Echo users perhaps being like Neo (not as a glitch but in that they're given sort of "command keys" over the system, vs people without who have to gather in large numbers in order pray/sacrifice for control of the system). Not quite a FFXI dream, more like being an organism inside a body lol.

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Originally Posted by Apriconi

I think we have to stop thinking of Zodiark as evil or the bad guy. We don't really know his story aside from what little ascians have told us. This expansion really can help answer a lot of questions that the playerbase might have about both Hydaelyn and Zodiark. There has to be more than just a good vs. evil narrative. Hydaelyn clearly has her own agenda and us WoLs have been blindly following it. There has to be a reason why Hydaelyn went apeshit and sealed away Zodiark, weakening herself and throwing everything out of balance.

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This pretty much. We shouldnt have been thinking of Zodiark as evil from the beginning. A lot of information we have on Zodiark is pretty limited and second hand. We're told hes the god of the Ascians, and cause we think Ascians suck, so must Zodiark. Zodiark is said to have tried to grab more power which resulted in the split, but that necessarily isnt true or that it wasnt justified. What if Hydaelin was become to strong and Zodiark wanted to pull power.

More broadly (as this xpac will probably push), we shouldnt be thinking of Light as Good and Dark as bad. Intent is the key point and balance between the two is necessary. To much of either proves disastrous. I think elidibus kind of leans on this point - he wants to restore the balance because he sees the current state of things as bad. But maybe his methods are crap.

Also could be that Hydaelin made a pigs ear of everything, realized she done goofed but cant fix the situation, so she kinda 'recruited' us to fix the issue. That or shes paranoid the Ascians are gonna flip the switch and turn life to death forever like a Fifth Element plot point. Im still personally partial that the WoL is, in its most simplest explaination, a new primal of sorts, and that perhaps Hydaelin is pumping us full of Aether (essentially what the Blessing of Hydaelin/Echo is) to sort the issue out. Prayer aspect is just coming from everyone who wishes for our success in bringing more stability and hope to the people. Remember, not all primals have to temper people to exist - Thordan, Shiva, Alex, and a few others didnt do this. They were just super poweful probably because wishes/prayers came to them of freewill rather then by force.



Screw you SE. That trailer raised to many damn questions and Im pretty damned hyped for the xpac. Just crossing my fingers that this wont be a let down.

Isn't warrior of Light a primal?. Thought heard from some Garlean during a quest we was one. Then I'm pretty sure Hydaelyn is one. Isn't Midgardsormr and Bahamut primals. Weren't they the 3 first gods.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Isn't Midgardsormr and Bahamut primals.

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no bahamut was once just a dragon like middy but then tiamat was tricked into summoning bahamut back as a primal.

middy is just a ancient strong dragon and bahamut was also until resummoned as a primal.

also the garleans dont think of us as primals per say but an equivalent as we are a WMD on the same level thats why they asked if we would join them as we could exponentially make them stronger we dont drain the world of aether so we arent a world threat for just existing but we became one from being too dang powerful

I love how you put the spoiler on the title of the thread so everyone will get spoiled even if they don't enter here.

Change the name of the thread to "[spoilers]About Hydaelyn in the E3 trailer" at least.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

no bahamut was once just a dragon like middy but then tiamat was tricked into summoning bahamut back as a primal.

middy is just a ancient strong dragon and bahamut was also until resummoned as a primal.

also the garleans dont think of us as primals per say but an equivalent as we are a WMD on the same level thats why they asked if we would join them as we could exponentially make them stronger we dont drain the world of aether so we arent a world threat for just existing but we became one from being too dang powerful

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Midgarsorm is a dragon from another planet that crossed space to come here with his children, the original bahamut was one of them but the one that's been summoned after he died is not actually that Bahamut. Primals being the concept of whatever the people doing the summoning want it to be given a physical form with ether. They're basically imaginary friends.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

I love how you put the spoiler on the title of the thread so everyone will get spoiled even if they don't enter here.

Change the name of the thread to "[spoilers]About Hydaelyn in the E3 trailer" at least.

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Look at the date of the first post.