Dark Knight Tank Stance Change +3.x Reprisal and 3.x Dark Dance

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

What we've been talking about with speed may be true in some situations, but if we look at the description of "speed" increasing effects in game they are either:

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I'm not disagreeing with Reynhart.

The effects you are listing are time decreasing effects, their effects on speed are characterized by a different relationship. Blood weapon decreases the recast time, indirectly we can think of the "speed" as increasing but its not by the same factor, in fact the factors are reciprocals of each other. In your last post you were discussing a "speed" bonus. Looking at blood weapon: Decreases recast time by 10% (recast time multiplied by a factor of .9) What does this do to our speed? Let our recast time be t then our "speed" to complete a GCD would be

1/t (1 GCD per unit of time t)

Our speed when recast time is decreased by 10% would be:

1/(.9t) = 1.111*1/t

In other words decreasing the recast time is equivalent to increasing the speed of attack by the reciprocal of the factor which decreased our speed. Speed buffs and time delay buffs are related but different things.

Think of it this way: I'm driving on a highway at 60 miles an hour, if I buff my speed by 50% I'll travel 90 miles an hour. If I need to travel 180 miles it will take me 3 hours at 60 mpg.

@60mph it takes me 3 hours to travel 180 miles.
@90mph it takes me 2 hours to travel 180 miles

If I increase my speed by 50% I do not increase my time spent traveling by 50% ( at 90 mph it doesn't take me 4.5 hours to arrive at my destination) but I also do not decrease my time spent traveling by 50% (which would be an 1.5 hours).

Increasing my speed by 50% (30 miles per hour) decreased my travel time by 33.333% (my time spent traveling decreased by an hour). My increase in speed can be represented by a factor of 1.5, my time spent traveling can be represented by a factor of 1/1.5 (or 2/3).

I absolutely love the idea of making blood price/weapon a passive trait. Allowing drk to gain blood faster will definitely make it a faster, more engaging class than it is now. Looking at the dev point of view though, it’s very unlikely such a change will be implemented... :(

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

The effects you are listing are time decreasing effects, their effects on speed are characterized by a different relationship. Blood weapon decreases the recast time, indirectly we can think of the "speed" as increasing but its not by the same factor, in fact the factors are reciprocals of each other.

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Perhaps it was just a semantic mistake. But now that I know there is a distinct difference between our GCD and the actual concept of speed I'll be more careful.

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Originally Posted by XykeVayaris

I absolutely love the idea of making blood price/weapon a passive trait. Allowing drk to gain blood faster will definitely make it a faster, more engaging class than it is now. Looking at the dev point of view though, it’s very unlikely such a change will be implemented... :(

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Not to mention, it gives DRK an entirely unique niche. Shame something like this wouldn't be implemented outside an expansion, I fear. :(

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

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Precisely.

It's all about properly interpreting and translating the information and avoiding potential mix-ups based on wording, terminology or conceptualization.

As you pointed out, reducing the time it takes to complete an action by a percentage is different than increasing the speed that actions occur by that same percent. While they conceptually seem like the same thing, since a decrease in time for an action to occur is an increase to the speed at which actions occur, they are calculated differently.

So while the statement that "increasing speed by 50% will result in twice the amount of attacks" is false, saying that "decreasing the time it takes for attacks by 50% will result in twice the number of attacks" is true. While the difference may seem like "semantics", the two statements are actually saying very different things.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

While the difference may seem like "semantics", the two statements are actually saying very different things.

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Technically, yes. As it relates to this game, however, there isn't such a thing as "speed". An increase in attack speed is only achieved by reduction of our GCD. Obviously if we say we are increasing skill speed or spell speed by 50% then that has it's own equation for how it affects the GCD, and you say "increased skill/spell speed by 50%". Applying a real-life physics equation for determining "attack speed" is adding a variable that doesn't actually exist in game.

But it was mainly just me operating under the assumption that all speed increasing effects are the same. I'm sure at some point my brain saw "reduces recast time by 10%" and simplified it to "increases speed X%" for all of them. It wasn't till I recently went back and saw it doesn't actually mention speed at all, but rather the proper cast/recast terminology.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Technically, yes. As it relates to this game, however, there isn't such a thing as "speed". An increase in attack speed is only achieved by reduction of our GCD. Obviously if we say we are increasing skill speed or spell speed by 50% then that has it's own equation for how it affects the GCD, and you say "increased skill/spell speed by 50%". Applying a real-life physics equation for determining "attack speed" is adding a variable that doesn't actually exist in game.

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Yes, the rate/speed debate is one which we don't know if it exists in the game except as a calulation tool. The point I think both TouchandFeel and myself are trying to make is that this is actually fine as long as we keep our definitions straight. However, as a calculation tool speed increasing effects are exactly the same as increasing the GCD, a 50% increase in speed is a 50% increase in the number of GCDs completed, so all the reciprical arguments for speed and time are the same for time and number of GCDs.

The point though is that to keep the point straight we just need to agree on definitions and stick to them, otherwise this is where confusion can come from on both sides of the conversation. The numbers are only as good as the definitions are clear. Sorry if I seemed overly concerned with the definitions and what was being buffed where, I was just trying to keep things as straight forward as possible.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

The point though is that to keep the point straight we just need to agree on definitions and stick to them, otherwise this is where confusion can come from on both sides of the conversation. The numbers are only as good as the definitions are clear. Sorry if I seemed overly concerned with the definitions and what was being buffed where, I was just trying to keep things as straight forward as possible.

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Oh it's no problem, I am always eager to learn but usually leads to getting in over my head because once I start I gotta get to the bottom of it! Lol

Chrono,

your DRK suggestions on this forum are by far the best I have seen. Not just in this thread, but also this one.

I have played DRK a few times more and started to like the rotation. Still feeling squishy or rushed on TBN, just doesn't feel reliable.

I hope to see same of the suggested changes in 4.2!

Thanks for your good work!

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

Chrono,

your DRK suggestions on this forum are by far the best I have seen. Not just in this thread, but also this one.

I have played DRK a few times more and started to like the rotation. Still feeling squishy or rushed on TBN, just doesn't feel reliable.

I hope to see same of the suggested changes in 4.2!

Thanks for your good work!

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Thank you!