I Love 4.0 Summoner. A lot.

Players have complained summoner 4 years now. I remember during 3.0 ppl was so disappoint once summoner did not get any new pet and now summoner get bahamut and players still complain. There is nothing SE can do make everybody happy. I am 99% sure ppl will complain summoner even after 5.0. Game offer multiple different jobs, play another one if you dont like this one.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Game offer multiple different jobs, play another one if you don't like this one.

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Please point me to the other DoT based DPS class that is built all around maintaining it DoTs? You could argue BRD but that is more about keeping up and adjusting your rotation based on the current song you are playing. My issue is they removed my DoT based DPS class and didn't add an alternative for that play style.

Well there isn't any DoT based cls anymore - people just have to get use to it.

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Originally Posted by Neela

Well there isn't any DoT based cls anymore - people just have to get use to it.

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Or we can you know see our play style is no longer in the game and leave which is a path I don't want to go down as I do imagine they can work with SMN to make it less clunky. We have to stop being at each others necks about what SMN is though. I am willing to give up DoTs if it means a more fluid rotation with light DoT management but SB's rotation is not fluid at all compared to HW. Bahamut needs a lot of adjustments aside from a size change as well such as movement causing him to do nothing.

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

Or we can you know see our play style is no longer in the game and leave which is a path I don't want to go down as I do imagine they can work with SMN to make it less clunky. We have to stop being at each others necks about what SMN is though. I am willing to give up DoTs if it means a more fluid rotation with light DoT management but SB's rotation is not fluid at all compared to HW. Bahamut needs a lot of adjustments aside from a size change as well such as movement causing him to do nothing.

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True - my comment wasn't meant to be offensive. I'm not saying smn playstyle is great atm but for me DoTs are more for Sch than for us. Taking the focus away from smn is the first step now we need a new "own" identity indeed. Future will show if they are able to pleasure us ^^

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Originally Posted by Viridiana_Sovari

I disagree, SMN requires less thought and less management to play now. 3.0 SMN was my favorite job in the game. 4.0 SMN doesn't even rank top 5 for me. SMN is more rigid about its rotation if you playing optimally now, not less. SMN requires less thought now as well as compared to 3.0.

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Am I the only one who immensely disliked 3.x SMN? The Aethertrail Attunement timer was super obnoxious, IMO - if I wanted to spend all raid yelling about "mah staaaaaacks" I'd have rolled a MNK.

That said, while I fundamentally disagree with the OP in regards to SMN not needing an overhaul, I can at least respect that they're defending their position from a lofty height, at least relative to their performance on FFLogs.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Am I the only one who immensely disliked 3.x SMN? The Aethertrail Attunement timer was super obnoxious, IMO - if I wanted to spend all raid yelling about "mah staaaaaacks" I'd have rolled a MNK.

That said, while I fundamentally disagree with the OP in regards to SMN not needing an overhaul, I can at least respect that they're defending their position from a lofty height, at least relative to their performance on FFLogs.

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Nah, I hated it too. As for FFlogs, the data is becoming more clear though in that SMN is tied with BRD and MCH. More importantly it really needs some design work. I think Bahamut and giving pets more weight was a step in the right direction, just needs some polish to bring it all together.

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

Pet's as you said can be set to "Sic". Red Mage requires much more thought then Summoner. Summoner is much easier to do damage, (Albeit less damage.)

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The fact you think Smns can leave their pet on Sic is why you find it "easy to do less dps", and why you view Red Mage as more complicated. The intricacies Smn had in HW are still there, just in different areas. Please read research on the class, like Eirene's:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...d3LQBPy1E/edit

For SSS dummies, Smn's dps requirement is quite high, which means competitive dps is still possible. When you see that you aren't doing that level of dps (which you've admitted), your instinct should be to look up what you're doing wrong. (Surprised you haven't already done this, since you claim to be a dps raider.) I believe you didn't have this issue with Rdm since the class is well-designed and simpler to pick up- something I cannot say about Smn.

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Originally Posted by Letz

The intricacies Smn had in HW are still there, just in different areas. Please read research on the class, like Eirene's:

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You seemed to miss the fact the OP mentioned that after they use the first contagion, they put their pet on sic to fight less with clunky ai.
Also Smn doesn't have a single intricacy from heavensward.

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Originally Posted by TsundereImouto

Try lining contagion up properly once and putting garuda on sic. I know it's taboo to suggest that, but after you line it up properly once you want to use it on cd anyways, and garuda is much better about casting it fast herself than when you order her to do it.

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Losing or missing Aetherflow? Only if you die. Dropping aethertrail attunement because of pushing phases or unexpected event? Impossible, even in a11s.
Mana issues? Gone the moment every summoner ever put Lucid dream on their hotbar. Squeezing out fester's in dreadwyrm trance? Thing of a past. Lining up Tri-disaster with dreadwyrm trance? Automatically done for you! Want to Ruin 4? Wait till it procs and cast a spell you would probably cast anyway.

Face it dude. Summoner has been made so easy, with everything from all summoner's dots taking a combined total of 2.5 seconds to cast, to fester's cd being cut in half. It could not get any simpler then it is today. The only thing they could do to make the class easier is take the controller/keyboard out of your hand and play for you.

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

Also Smn doesn't have a single intricacy from heavensward.

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Yes.. which is why I said, "Just in different areas."

Also, I am not referring to anything the OP said or didn't say. I am telling you that putting the pet on Sic is a choice that will make the class simpler but lower your dps. Which, again, is something you, personally, are having an issue with.

So again, I will state my perspective on your problem. If you were able to do respectable dps as a summoner, I doubt you'd find it faceroll easy. And, again, you yourself say you aren't satisfied with your Smn dps, while at the same time finding it overly simple. So, logically, you shouldn't have a hard time believing that your playing the class improperly.