Silly tank melds

Tenacity is both DPS and Damage Reduction, and it works out to be a fairly efficient use of melds. DPS won't be as high as it could be, but the extra damage reduction more than makes up for the small difference.

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

"Collectively believed" doesn't mean a thing. Given otherwise identical gear and performance the difference between a full Direct Hit melded tank and a full Tenacity melded tank is going to be about .5%. 10-15 DPS.
That's going to be far less noticeable than cutting off an extra 2.8% damage taken.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...o_stat_values/

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I would rather have an extra half a percent (hell even a quarter of a percent) of DPS that is at least going to go towards helping shorten a run than a wasted 2.8% mitigation that is very likely not going to make any difference in the fight. As the stat values go up DH and Crit only further the gap between Tenacity - if the extra 2.8% of mitigation in a fight where you are in no danger of dying already is worth it to you - by all means go for it. You cannot really argue that Tenacity isn't a mediocre stat which is only slightly more useful than initially believed to be.

When I build tank stats I do not think about "DPS" that isn't what I am there for, I am there to stand, take a beating and keep the mob/boss from looking at the squishies that are doing the damage.

I have never subscribed to have shit tonne of HP because the healers will be wasting more mana than they need to try keep you up, look at the Warriors/Dark Knights having to rely fully on HP builds and if for any reason their gear isn't up to scratch the healer is spending most of the fight playing a yoyo to keep them up.

I run my Paladin on a mixture of Determination and Tenacity atm, I have the older mentality from games such as WoW, TOR, FW, PWI were tanks literally were built as the name suggests.

This is how I run myself, I dont follow meta, when they design these dungeons they dont have a meta in mind, they create content for everyone with some iota of skill to complete them. And Tanks will always be in the two base camps of high HP or high Defence rating.

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Originally Posted by Voormund

Yea not to set your strawman on fire, but ...

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Don't try to change the subject - my statement wasn't a Strawman argument as it directly references your gripe with how tanks meld.

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Originally Posted by Voormund

melding in a stat that is collectively believed to be slightly more useful than parry

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Again, you and others assume the usefulness of Tenacity without truly knowing it's weights. Random people on the internet have made assumptions based on data they collected, but it's not written in stone.

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Originally Posted by Voormund

Tenacity is underwhelming as a main stat and doesn't scale nearly as well as Crit or DH (or even Det I believe) - you cannot argue that no matter how you feel on it's usefulness.

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You keep saying this, but it's simply not true - How are those other stats "more useful"? Objectively to you they are because they do what exactly? Cause a mob to die seconds faster? A boss to die a seconds faster over minutes of playtime? What you are describing is SUBJECTIVELY better in your opinion. A tank player melding Tenacity may ease a healer's time or allow for possible mistakes, all while increasing the tank's damage some to boot.. again, SUBECTIVELY good things that will benefit a party.

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Originally Posted by Voormund

but I would expect people to put at least the same amount of effort into trying to get the most out of their time as I do.

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Don't count on it - it hasn't been, and won't be, that way in this MMO or any other. There will always be those that don't bother to do the research into secondary stats outside of the game. FFXIV is particularly bad because you can't actually SEE IN GAME how these stats actually affect your character on the sheet. You literally have to crunch numbers to figure it out.

You're essentially arguing that all tanks should follow this alleged META. I'm saying so long as tanks do what's needed and the result is victory for everyone, does it really matter?

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Originally Posted by Voormund

You cannot really argue that Tenacity is a mediocre stat which is only slightly more useful than initially believed to be.

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Initially believed? Are we going to go by the collective again? "To be basically the same exact thing as Parry." "To be avoided like the plague." "LOL 1000 points to get 1%."
The reality? Provides comparable DPS to the "best" stat that only the best of the best will ever be able to provide even the slightest actual notable gap while also providing mitigation that Parry couldn't even dream of.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

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Turning me criticizing the usefulness of one stat versus another into a melodramatic comment insinuating that I was asking for 100% optimization is the definition of a strawman. That wasn't what I said at all yet I'm the one changing the subject? Yea, you know what, I'm to the point where I honestly don't care anymore. Play whatever way you want, this is giant waste of time arguing facts with someone who just wants to talk about objectivity. Tenacity will only continue to be a worse stat as time goes on, if you're happy with that more power to you. It doesn't affect me at all and it's really not worth my time to debate it.

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Originally Posted by Voormund

Turning me criticizing the usefulness of one stat versus another into a melodramatic comment insinuating that I was asking for 100% optimization is the definition of a strawman. That wasn't what I said at all yet I'm the one changing the subject? Yea, you know what, I'm to the point where I honestly don't care anymore. Play whatever way you want, this is giant waste of time arguing facts with someone who just wants to talk about objectivity. Tenacity will only continue to be a worse stat as time goes on, if you're happy with that more power to you.

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Glad we got this straightened out.

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Originally Posted by Sanctify

It seems like every tank i come across has tenacity melds. To this I have two questions. What are you smoking? And can i have some?

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i think you're doing your melds wrong

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

I've been playing since the start of HW, but it was never anything more than casual, as back then, I was raiding in WoW. I'm just now starting to get deeper into the game as of late as, once my life finally calms down after my move, I want to slot myself into a static.

Because I come from WoW, I do have a more traditional philosophy on tanking, especially with how Blizzard has been handling tanking the past few expansions with active mitigation, or "do more to prevent more". That's why I like paladin so much, because it incentivizes use of Holy Spirit while tanking to give you more mitigation through Sheltron.

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That's great. But, you should know that there's a good chance the SB meta will again steer tanks out of tank stance after getting initial hate.

I obviously can't see the future, but it seems like a solid bet.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

That's great. But, you should know that there's a good chance the SB meta will again steer tanks out of tank stance after getting initial hate.

I obviously can't see the future, but it seems like a solid bet.

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With Shirk around things will need to hit like a train for that to not be the case in any organized group. So, yeah, a pretty good bet.