Royal Menagerie

This just shows a problem with how the game is made. People who have no clue what they are doing, randomly just press buttons and eat every AOE are faced with a fight that actually punishes poor DPS, messing up mechanics and not learning from mistakes. This isn't the fights fault, it's the players' fault for being so bad at the game they consider a fight with a bit more mechanics than a dungeon boss or normal primal "extreme/savage" level (lol) and the devs fault for letting it get to this point, where players who are flat out terrible at the game expect to face roll everything and be carried.

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Originally Posted by Age_of_Oblivion

I think everyone that has already successfully cleared this fight and is saying it was a piece of cake should play it one more time, and see what a joyous cake walk it really is in the DF. I've had 7 groups now and still can't get healers to dodge tails.

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I cleared it but I hated it and won't even play my other stand alone char to 70 due to the thought of doing that encounter again hehe. Nope, no way.

I have yet to clear it, most grps usually give up after a few wipes and I noticed that most are new to the fight. I wish I worked a better shift so I could use the FC but I don't so I'm stuck with DF. I have only been playing FF14 since Feb so a lot of things are new to me but coming from WoW for 12 years I understand mechanics on most fights but this one is way "overtuned" for a DF grp. I could see it on hard or ex but not when you place a bunch of random people together and expect a good outcome. Since everyone thinks it's fine just the way it is then why not change the mechanics in DF to more forgiving or at least after a wipe give some sort of grp buff to help so people will not leave after a couple of wipes? People play the game to have fun not get frustrated and way that's just my opinion of the RM...

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Originally Posted by Furbe

I have only been playing FF14 since Feb so a lot of things are new to me but coming from WoW for 12 years I understand mechanics on most fights but this one is way "overtuned" for a DF grp.

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Every DF group I've ended up there with has been capable of beating it. If you're having much trouble with it, maybe start a party finder so that you can have as many tries as you need with the same group? :)

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Originally Posted by Taika

Every DF group I've ended up there with has been capable of beating it. If you're having much trouble with it, maybe start a party finder so that you can have as many tries as you need with the same group? :)

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Thanks for the advice but our ally guild was doing it so I jumped in with them and finished it with no deaths. But I still stand by it being overtuned for a random pug grp. I'm sure most of the grps I had "could" have beaten it if they stayed together long enough but at what point does "doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same results not lead to insanity"? IMHO it would be easier to herd a bunch of long tail cats in a room full of rocking chairs.

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Originally Posted by Furbe

Since everyone thinks it's fine just the way it is then why not change the mechanics in DF to more forgiving or at least after a wipe give some sort of grp buff to help so people will not leave after a couple of wipes?

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This is already in the game. If you survive a fight long enough and then fail to win, your group(or you in many solo instances) gets a buff to your damage, healing, and health. Its called "The Echo". Its not always active on brand new content, but they usually turn it on the next patch if they started with it off. Then in some cases, they provide even stronger versions of it in later patches. So without them making any changes to this fight at all, it will end up being nerfed three times making it easier for new people to do. The first nerf comes from more people learning the fight, and trial roulette groups getting extra proficient at it. The second nerf is when more and more people have gear higher then ilvl 310, making DPS and healing requirements easier to hit. Those are slowly happening now. Then around patch 4.1, the echo will be turned on and it will get easier still. So no, they dont need to make any extra changes.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

The second nerf is when more and more people have gear higher then ilvl 310, making DPS and healing requirements easier to hit.

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Royal menagerie blocks the access to higher ilvl, in case you forgot. Best they can have is 300.

it took 4 DF groups for me to finish this. First one wiped ONCE and they all gave up. 2nd one half the group got washed off by the first water aether and everyone bailed. 3rd one tried 3 times then the healers both "lost connection" and never came back. 4th one we failed once.. everyone regrouped and we passed it with NO PROBLEMS.. I'm actually thinking I was lucky enough to join a group who queued with an incomplete party on that one, they seemed to know each other and once a mistake was pointed out people just didn't do it again.

BUT... this game is the final boss for the expansion story, it should be hard. I felt rewarded and heroic as the fight ended. I think it's fine.


this really is just a extreme version of "don't stand in the fire"

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Originally Posted by Kalayel

Royal menagerie blocks the access to higher ilvl, in case you forgot. Best they can have is 300.

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But it doesn't block player skill. Once most people have beaten it a million times, and we go from 7 people being new to 1 person being new then the fight will be easily beaten.

Ozma never got a nerf, and after a month or so people had no problems beating it.

The only "hard" part of the fight, are the adds needing to be killed in time.
(and even that is questionable, as the usual reason stems from dead DPS, be it standing in bad, healers not healing, ro tanks not tanking. Its possible for DPS to not know their AoE rotations.)

The fights biggest actual failure, is its inability to convey what to do with certain mechanics. Requiring a failure to learn what to do in some cases.

*But simply put, Tanks should stay semi near the middle, but on top of eachother.
If they are dead middle, they will fail to dodge AoEs that target the middle in time.

*DPS need to dodge things, and worry less about their DPS. (yes, because the only real DPS checks are the adds, with a very minimal DPS check on the tail, and over all fight. You can have half the group dead, and still win)

*Healers need to be CLOSER to the boss, not further, so as to avoid aoes better. (Like the cones that people tend to mess up)

*Healers need to AoE heal during raid dmg, and single target heal during ahk morhn. (or w/e its called)

*If you kill the tail, the boss takes like 400k dmg. This makes the fight easier.

*Tanks stand next to eachother, and use CDs on Ahk Morhn.

Thats it.

Pretty much summed up as, everyone dodge easily dodgeable AoEs, if they focus more on dodging.
Then Healers heal, Tanks Tank. DPS can semi afk when not dodging.

The challenge isnt that the fight is hard, but instead, that there is a lot of AoEs to learn.
Just learn the AoEs, and the fight is easy.

If we look at the games easiest EX fight, and easiest Savage Fight (When they are introduced, not after nerfs), this is actually easier than them both.

I would compare this to Garuda HM or Ifrit HM difficulty in 2.1 (not so much 2.0 when people were less geared, as those were a bit harder) and definitely not as hard as the EX versions.

(As a RDM, the biggest Issue I find is healers spending all their MP on rezzing DPS, and not having MP for AoE heals when raid wide dmg goes out. So I spend most of my time insta rezzing, and giving my limited MP away to healers. This pretty much brings the win, as we stop trying to dodge aoes, and just zombie the boss to death on 0 mp)