How is SAM not going to be bonkers OP in non raid content?

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

I find it odd that people parrot the philosophy that "casual pve content" is irrelevant to game balance.

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Because it is.

Most casual PvE content is over so quickly that major discrepancies between classes either aren't apparent or dont have the chance to create a meaningful impact. It's not a knock against the content its just the reality of design. There are jobs that dont even fully utilize their entire kits in things like Ex dungeons etc because it either isn't worth it or things are dead before they get the opportunity.

The things that are actual issues are likely to be caught first in harder content where it makes much more impact before it will trickle down into casual content, but not the other way around.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

Being able to run dungeons or solo pve content at a much faster right will definitely impact a good portion of people's decision as to what class to play.

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Maybe? It's possible, but extremely unlikely. I'm going to need a citation on that "good portion of people" if you can.

In a game where you are able to play every single job on the same character, the speed at which you kill level 65 rabbits solo on the hills outside of Kugane is hardly relevant to overall class balance as a whole.

I understand your point about dungeon clear times however this is already a reality depending on party skill / job composition.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

Then there always the psychologic aspect of pve balance. If I am in a dungeon with dps class x next to a SAM and absolutely see him obliterating mobs next to me I will feel like a pathetic dirt. Same thing is true in solo content if it is taking me 30 seconds to kill a mob and a SAM walks by me and two shots his mob next to me. Most players would be pretty enraged at that sight. Playing an MMORPG you want to feel like a badass hero. The psychology pve balance will leave a very bad taste and n people's mouths if relatively they feel like weaklings.

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Do you currently feel this way about Black Mages? How about Bards? or Machinists? Does it enrage you to watch the speed at which people kill mobs outside of cities? Does it matter in the long run?

Still going to need that "most people" citation.

Do you take personal issue with a BLM doing more AoE damage in a trash pull than a NIN or a MNK?

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

Now it might end up that SAM do it s not that much higher. However if it is absurdly higher I guarantee there will be an outcry about it. I've seen it plenty of times in other games with "casual pve content". I'm just hoping the devs aren't creating a headache for themselves with current SAM design.
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There will be an outcry either way, the player-base isn't a unified hive-mind of one collective opinion. whether the outcry is warranted / based on actual design issues will be the question.

And as stated before: Current listed potencies on abilities are subject to change.

Well since it's pretty much taken Monk's identity of "No raid buffs, all personal damage" it'll probably only be about 5% above Dragooon and 2% above Monk, similar to where Monk was compared to Dragoon.

Also on 4-man's, it's GCD aoe's aren't that huge when you take into account how few buffs they undergo, and it's oGCD aoe's are on some pretty hefty cooldowns. Plus they're all subject to some pretty rapidly diminishing returns, so while it may have large personal Damage it probably won't have exceptionally strong AOE to go along with it. Even if on paper something like Hissatsu: Guren seems huge however compared to Elixir Field or Flare it's kind of marginal as an AOE due to it's long cooldown (Elixir Field has 80 Potency more on the first target over the same two minute time frame and no diminishing returns for each further enemy).

It's apparent capacity to be a single target nuke seems like it'll make it a nightmare in PVP though.

Don't forget everything is subject for change and there is always the chance of nerfing OP jobs at some later patch.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

Well since it's pretty much taken Monk's identity of "No raid buffs, all personal damage" it'll probably only be about 5% above Dragooon and 2% above Monk, similar to where Monk was compared to Dragoon.

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Again, I'm gonna say I hope it's higher than that. Doesn't have to be super WTF OP amounts higher than DRG/MNK/NIN, but it should be a good amount higher. We saw what happened to Monk when it was 2-5% higher, it wasn't enough to make up for the loss in raid utility. Samurai should, if played optimally, be able to drop the mic so hard that they can get close to matching the raid utility of the other guys just on damage alone, even if it doesn't exceed the optimal setup. Enough so that people outside of the most min/max of groups who will obviously go for the most optimal setup period will go, "eh it's fine" and still take them into raids.

maybe wait to have the game and the right number for judge? no? because soo far people are judging from not definitive value of skill...
serioulsy.

Samurai is going to be an issue. There is a 11 minute vid from IGN where a 4-man is in a dungeon. That PLD is in Shield Oath the whole time just spamming the hell out of his RoH combo and Flash and that SAM took hate half a dozen times. That PLD was trying bless him but even with all his tools he just couldn't keep the hate off that SAM.

The challenge for Samurai will be in learning when to strike and where. To pay attention to their tanks and the other dps in the room. And to pick when to strike and when to stay their blades..... until we all get use to it and then go ham guys.

I think SAM will get nerfed a little bit if/when players manage to make it do much more dps than the devs intended it to do. Kinda like how NIN was when it was 1st released.

Either way, I'm sure jobs will be nerfed and buff throughout the course of Stormblood.

Nerfing jobs is a quick way to force people to just play something else. This is also the reason I will wait to purchase SB, I want to see if it's going to be a nerf extravaganza like wow, in which case I will be happy to have saved my money.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Nerfing jobs is a quick way to force people to just play something else. This is also the reason I will wait to purchase SB, I want to see if it's going to be a nerf extravaganza like wow, in which case I will be happy to have saved my money.

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Not every class can be on top. Perfect balance just isn't truly feasible. A little bit of class loyalty can go a long way with the natural ebb and flow of nerfs/buffs. Sometimes you're on the bottom, sometimes you're in the middle and sometimes you're on top. All you can do is realize that playing the top dog 100% of the time isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Don't care if sam is gonna be op or up .. gonna play it no matter what .. been waiting forever for the class to let "balance" ruin it.

But well most of the time "new" classes are op or up at release .. at least thats what i'm used to in mmorpgs lol.