On Xelphatol and the Actual Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Doluka

Except lore reasons for something in this specific game are entirely valid. Series history has only ever been referential for further titles, such as numerous spells becoming Green Magic in XII. Nothing that was in one title has ever had to be exactly the same in another to be implemented. Square has done this numerous times in the past, including both XI and XIV as well as several of the single player entries. His argument is fine.

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Bio is also considered a Black Magick in XII. Your point? I see little point in bringing up a magic type prominent in Ivalice games. 2 of them. The rest of the franchise has nothing to do with Green Magic.

Try again.

Bio being a Black Magic spell in past FF titles doesn't mean it has to be in XIV. It's arcanima, there's no disputing that if it has been confirmed in-game.

Anyways I don't understand the hate Summoner gets in this game. FF is all about innovation. Summoner was just a glorified BLM in the older (I-IX) titles anyways, and were usually outclassed by endgame when you're fighting superbosses.
I really like the direction SMN is going in too. Bahamut has always been the end all be all summon in FF, so I think it's cool that we can invoke him and use his signature abilities. I hope they expand on the DW Trance mechanic by adding more finishers and such.

and imo the most iconic Summoners in FF rarely relied on summons. Yuna was useful for her high magic stat and her white magic, while Rydia's black magic saw more use until you obtained Bahamut, (unless you're playing the remake, in which double casted flare or meteor beat out Bahamut)

Honestly, as far as comparing smn to older ff's is concerned, dreadwyrm trance and deathflare are much closer to what smn's were in the older games, and I hope they continue going in that direction rather than start making it more of a pet class

What would be cool is if they allowed Summoners to summon the Primal like Yuna did in FF Dissidia. They were only half the over all summoner (top half) but they were better then just the pet spirits.
That or let them become the Primal like that one girl in the story.

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Originally Posted by TheMax1087

Honestly, as far as comparing smn to older ff's is concerned, dreadwyrm trance and deathflare are much closer to what smn's were in the older games, and I hope they continue going in that direction rather than start making it more of a pet class

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Honestly I would agree with that...

If we are talking True FF Summoner...

Then the Dreadwyrm Trance and the massive damage you do with it is much closer to the actual Summoner than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Honestly I would agree with that...

If we are talking True FF Summoner...

Then the Dreadwyrm Trance and the massive damage you do with it is much closer to the actual Summoner than anything else.

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you forgot Teraflare it's even closer than Dreadwyrm Trance ; )

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Honestly I would agree with that...

If we are talking True FF Summoner...

Then the Dreadwyrm Trance and the massive damage you do with it is much closer to the actual Summoner than anything else.

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How is that a summoner? Summoners were meant for summoning avatars to do the dps for them. Getting Dreadwyrm Trance and Teraflare was just SE way to make summoner even less of one.

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Originally Posted by Venom1443

How is that a summoner? Summoners were meant for summoning avatars to do the dps for them. Getting Dreadwyrm Trance and Teraflare was just SE way to make summoner even less of one.

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Its actually pretty simple. Summoner summons summon, summon does 1 attack, summon goes away. That's how summoner worked in the majority of final fantasy games with dedicated summoners(and in all that didn't have dedicated summoners except 13)

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Originally Posted by Venom1443

How is that a summoner? Summoners were meant for summoning avatars to do the dps for them. Getting Dreadwyrm Trance and Teraflare was just SE way to make summoner even less of one.

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Only three games in the 14 other final fantasies have done this, that being X, XI, and XIII, and I wouldn't consider two of them as "traditional" final fantasy games. In all other final fantasies that have summons that appear for a few seconds (or minutes in some cases), and perform a single powerful attack. Look at the below video to see how long these "avatars that do DPS for us" used to stick around for (hint: Dreadwyrm trance lasts about the same amount of time).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HAthc_mFOs

What I will be happy to see though is a mirage of bahamut appearing when performing Deathflare, but thats probably beyond feasible.

I've been thinking about the expansion for summoner. At this point every ability to the summoner is useful so with them doing an ability review how do they add new abilities for the job without removing some of the current ones which will cause some adjustments to the job itself in how it plays. Right now its a mixed job with all these abilities all over the place in different area's with no real focus so how do they make it more focused so that they can continue to make the job grow. I honestly have no clue how they plan to approach the job but right now this job is probably the hardest for them to make new abilities without making some sort of drastic change in the way it plays and it probably have more focus I hope when they release new info on how the jobs will be effected. We just have to wait and see what they have planned for the job.