Summoner revamp

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

Why Do a strong number of suggestions involve removing the one Egi skill people actually use? ((Contagion))

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As other posters have said, because it looks like a skill that should either be a SMN skill or stacks the deck too much in favor of Garuda-Egi. When the game launched Garuda was plain better between ranged advantage and the fact one of it's skills elongated your DoTs. Simply put, the design was lopsided from the start.

I dunno if anyone here has kept up with World of Warcraft and it's Legion expansion, but in the beta of it they totally redesigned Demonology Warlocks to summon demons as their main means of damage and I think it is a cool idea and shows you don't need giant oversized beings to look cool. Here is a link to a very detailed overview of the class for anyone that might be interested in looking at it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Z9jLQGqXY

It would be cool if SE borrowed from WoW once more (like it did with the initial Smn class) and change dots into summons that you call to do damage over time on the target. Basically Smn would still be mostly the same but instead having your dots have a physical form via summons. They could then change the Egis into each being a oGCD cooldown that uses their Enkindle spell so that you could use them alongside your dots (which could be the various Carbuncles). It could still fit the lore since instead of summoning as a pet, you summon them for a short duration to deal damage and you expend Aether to summon and what not. This would make us feel like a Summoner, keep things small so it's not a resource hog and keep the idea of Smn being a DoT Caster.

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Originally Posted by Renryuu

I dunno if anyone here has kept up with World of Warcraft and it's Legion expansion, but in the beta of it they totally redesigned Demonology Warlocks to summon demons as their main means of damage and I think it is a cool idea and shows you don't need giant oversized beings to look cool. Here is a link to a very detailed overview of the class for anyone that might be interested in looking at it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Z9jLQGqXY

It would be cool if SE borrowed from WoW once more (like it did with the initial Smn class) and change dots into summons that you call to do damage over time on the target. Basically Smn would still be mostly the same but instead having your dots have a physical form via summons. They could then change the Egis into each being a oGCD cooldown that uses their Enkindle spell so that you could use them alongside your dots (which could be the various Carbuncles). It could still fit the lore since instead of summoning as a pet, you summon them for a short duration to deal damage and you expend Aether to summon and what not. This would make us feel like a Summoner, keep things small so it's not a resource hog and keep the idea of Smn being a DoT Caster.

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It's an interesting concept that works for demo warlocks, simply put.

I can sort of picture a SMN revamp using that as a base by keeping Carbuncle as the main summon and the egi-related abilities temporarily summoning Ifrit/Garuda/Titan-egi. For example "Hand of Guldan" adapted into "Aerial Blast", which deals wind-aspected damage to target and summons Garuda-egi, Chirada-egi and Suparna-egi to attack the target for 18 seconds. Inferno as an AoE damage ability that summons Ifrit-egi, which attacks target and has a damage aura that affects other nearby enemies. Abilities that make your egi faster and stronger (you could probably replace Fester or Tri-disaster with this).

Well I don't mean for SE to copy Demo Lock exactly, I was just using Demo Lock as an example of a Summoner type of class and how you could keep the theme of Summoner without having to have giant beings with minute long CGI that many seem to think us Smns want. Though the idea you gave is a rather interesting one.

I don't mind the DoT dmg based gameplay SMNs are in a MUCH better place then what they were in before WHMs and BLMs were the AoE kings back in 2.0 before the Flare and Holy nerfs I remember only being able to Bane 4 targets what a joke that was. What really made me mad at the start of 3.0 with SMNs was Ruin III how underwhelming was that? 120 potency when you have SCHs Broil doing more? I loved getting Deathflare and Bobhamut Trance but having Ruin III having such low potency made my stomach turn. Back in 2.0 i'd just roll my eyes when I had a SMN in my group instead of a WHM and a BLM with a BRD doing Myth runs in Brayflox HM but hey it was what it was back then.

I really do like where SMNs are at there's things they could improve on but for now destroying everything with Deathflare and a Bane that actually hits everything is a god send. Even single target DPS is really solid once you get the hang of it it's just a little tricky and takes practice is all like all DPS classes.

I'll be completely honest I've been wanting the summoners summons to actually resemble the primal they are modeled after. The class for the longest time was so under whelming. With trance and ruin 3 they have some flashy skills but their name sake.....it leaves me feeling disappointed. I could never stick with it because it felt like yoshi and his crew were trying to copy WOW's warlock but failing at it. Their skills are not noticeable half the time and overall design quality of the egi is abysmal. That prob won't ever change.

@OP, Agreed.
The Summons should play a FAR greater role than they currently do. What we're currently playing in XIV isn't a summoner. And I think the titles of these jobs are pretty important. If you're going to label a job as a Summoner it should be a Summoner. Summoner as it stands in the game is fine. It functions great and It's fun.Strip the jobs title from it and aside from the actual avatar related abilities which are in the minority and are nothing less than supplemental damage and utility to your kit; the class could have been literally named anything. I mean really, make up a new class for the FF franchise, you have the ability to do that, or some other DoT class that exists that i don't care to research. 80% of it's toolkit has nothing to do with your Avatar. Which traditionally in the franchise these numbers would have been flipped. I'm fine with the Actual summoner doing actions to supplement Avatar Damage. But currently it's the other way around.

I've never been upset with how Summoner as it stands currently performs. But It would have been a better move to strip the Avatars from the class, Or lock the Class into Carbuncle only (the best looking Avatar in the game which we almost never see) and named the class something else. Leaving the Summoner title to a real summoner where the power is flipped from The Carbuncle wielding Dot Spreader.

You don't have to agree with me. But that's how I would have done things.

However... Summoner was one of the classes hinted at by SE for the release of 2.0 which got even myself hyped. It was "accidently" shown on their site even. I believe it's burdened with it's Arcanists Background, and I'm not sure how you fix a class without making most of it's current toolkit either worthless or removing it entirely for Avatar heavy related abilities and skills.

I believe it was that hype that SE wanted for the 2.0 release. Everyone knows what summoner is and how cool a class it was. So in that sense, mission accomplished.

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Originally Posted by Kaeoni

I believe it's burdened with it's Arcanists Background, and I'm not sure how you fix a class without making most of it's current toolkit either worthless or removing it entirely for Avatar heavy related abilities and skills.

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I don't think ACN's background is a problem; from what i've seen/remember ACN = all about carbuncle, Smn = all about egis. The burden i think lies with Sch being tied to ACN and sticking it and SMN with the dots SCH needs to dd and heal. If they seperated SCH from ACN they then could make changes to ACN and SMN without harming or over powering SCH. If there was a demand for a dot class to assume SMN's role then they could make another seperate job; Mystic maybe? They would have to completely remake the cutscenes for ACN if they took carbuncle from it where as dots aren't even referenced in them when i checked.

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Originally Posted by Kaeoni

However... Summoner was one of the classes hinted at by SE for the release of 2.0 which got even myself hyped. It was "accidently" shown on their site even. I believe it's burdened with it's Arcanists Background, and I'm not sure how you fix a class without making most of it's current toolkit either worthless or removing it entirely for Avatar heavy related abilities and skills.

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I'll agree that in terms of power, and clearly in terms of gameplay to all those who are playing the SMN currently, the current SMN is definitely solid. It probably should have been named Evoker or the like instead, given its gameplay component and subsequent identity, but it is solid.

However, I don't think that style has to be sacrificed to offer a more "SMN"-like playstyle alternative. It doesn't even need specs. All it needs is shared resources, choice of spenders, and balance. And it already has Aetherflow, a perfectly reasonable shared resource to work from.

Let's put it another way: does using Rouse and Spur on cooldown (except in the rare cases that Enkindle is desynced and they must be saved for its burst) in any way enhance SMN gameplay as it currently stands? But clearly neither do Fester, Energy Drain, Painflare, or Bane (apart from Garuda's Contagion) have any synergy with what your pet is doing, or even whether it exists?

So, trim the fat, and put it aside to create a second, newly attractive path. Increase the Aetherflow cap. Give Rouse and Spur stack costs. Rouse now gains some additional effects, including increasing pet size per stack. Change Spur to a pet-based attack, as responsive as a caster ability, but with pet interaction and dependence. Indirectly, you decrease SCH baseline pet output, which Yoshi has mentioned wanting to reduce, but giving them another useful spender option to spice up their arsenal as well. SMN in turn can now capitalize either upon his pet or himself. That, to me, is the simplest path.

What I'd want to do most though, is something that would have SMNs thinking their "blessed with their Arcanist background" rather than burdened by it. Rework it from the ground up as an immensely tactical and highly versatile class, viable between and alongside SMN and SCH, and then work the jobs from there. But that's a massive pipedream.

It would sort of be interesting if:

1. The Egi was redesigned and larger
2. You control the Egi, and the SMN does the sort of "auto damage" roll and sort of hovers off to the side (or on the shoulder of the larger Egi?)
3. Have it so you have to have your Egi out to do more than just your basic damage of dots. Modify ruin etc to be specific spells or attack from the Egi you now control directly

While I play it, it definitely was not planned out well.