We were this close to being able to make our own judgment calls about what to do from here on. With Urianger taking history lessons from Eldibus, we already had a source of cosmic truth, and somehow I highly doubt Minfilia would have sat around as a useless figurehead during our time in Ishgard. The Eorzean Alliance is kind of her baby. She was also beginning to have doubts after losing Moen, not to mention Eldibus was willing to talk openly with her, so whatever Hydaelyn's motives, she effectively beheaded us for the sake of keeping us on the path we were on. That's... shady.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
[spoilers]3.2 MSQ Discussion/Reaction thread
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02-25-2016, 03:57 AMFenral
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02-25-2016, 03:59 AMTayolynn
I was totally on edge during the ceremony with Vidofnir and Aymeric, like, "things are running smoothly, too smoothly..." and after the shrill of our favorite possessed dude... there it was, the party-crasher and someone brought to the edge of death.
Honestly speaking, the grand melee was quite fun, I can see it as a mini game to play anytime in the future, but I thought it was a huge waste of time to the main story. I might have to look back on it again, but I didn't quite catch the importance of the grand melee within the midst of the return of conquest-over-the-dragons that lass stirred. -
02-25-2016, 04:10 AMNalienWere we? What makes Elidibus playing us any better than Hydaelyn? I mean that is all that was happening before... We weren't finding out the truth, we were being told the truth as Elidibus sees it, he is no more a trustworthy source than the Word of the Mother... I'd much rather have both accounts, to be honest... At least then I can side with who I want to side with... Had Hydaelyn done nothing? She couldn't communicate with us anymore. We'd have been left relying on Elidibus for Cosmic History 101, which is almost certainly going to be a bias account... That's basically game over for her, and seeing as the Rejoinings seem to correlate to Calamities... Well, I suspect it wouldn't be game over for us, I imagine the Echo grants us some safety from cosmic rebalancing, but it would almost certainly be game over for Eorzea as we know it, and most of the people therein...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenral
Until Elidibus sets about building an orphanage or something, the Ascians will continue to be utterly unredeemable in my eyes. Not once have they done a single good thing, just constant dickery... Sucks for them that Hydaelyn banished Zodiark and ruined the universe. This is my universe now though, like hell I'm going to let them destroy it... In their eyes I'm sure we're the villains, the ones who ruthlessly destroyed the universe and insist on having pointless struggles with each other, but in my eyes, if they're not the ones directly responsible for starting such struggles, they're certainly adding fuel to the fire... These are the guys who went to a mourning Tiamat, tricked her into summoning a corruption of her beloved, and then told the Ascians how to trap him and enslave the entire brood... They're dicks, no two ways about it really, I don't care if my universe existing destroyed theirs... -
02-25-2016, 04:16 AMAlice_89thPersonally I think the grand melee was to give us a taste of pvp. Getting points for killing enemies, and more points for some? Yep that sounds like The Feast. Not that I mind, it was a fun duty. I wonder if you can lose it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayolynn
The importance of the melee was to show the Ishgardians that there is an 'enemy' to unite them. Although this enemy would be whoever the alliance stands against (probably Garleans). While a bit far-fetched there is reasoning behind it.
Ishgard is one big boiling pot of class problems waiting to happen. The only thing that kept the commoners and nobles united was their war against the dragons. However if there would be a peace treaty with the dragons the war would end and there would be nothing for those who used to fight, and nothing to unite the two classes. A large part of the commotion at Falcons Nest was because a commoner was shot by (order of) a noble. In the eyes of the commoners proving that they would continue to be suppressed.
The Grand Melee showed that Ishgards forces (commoners and nobles united) could hold their own again enemy forces. That they could stand united against something other than the dragons. Even if the Alliance was a mock enemy, the display apparently worked. Just don't ask me how, I agree that the logic it is a bit wobbly. Anyway, the end result is that those who got doubts after the Falcons Nest Incident had renewed faith in a peace treaty. -
02-25-2016, 04:23 AMCyrilLuciferI don't think we can be friends anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
I actually didn't feel like the Scions were questioning Hydaelyn as much as they should have. They are sad because Minfilia is not longer Minfilia, but they didn't really ask the hard questions. Why was it required? Why did it happen? What is going to be expected of the Warrior of Light, if this was asked of Minfilia? Has Hydaelyn asked this of others, past or present? Will She ask for sacrifice again when Her energy dwindles?
The line that irritated me most, I think, was something akin to "Minfilia was always closest to Hydaelyn." Even said regretfully, it was disturbing, as if because she was closest, it's expected for her to be chosen as one of Hydaelyn's tools.
And do you know what that means?
We're next. -
02-25-2016, 04:26 AMNalienHey, maybe Elidibus did set up an orphanage, Kidibus had to come from somewhere, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer
Hydaelyn isn't even the one we should be questioning... Both Hydaelyn and Elidibus are obviously bias to their own side.Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer
You know who I trust right now? Midgardsormr.
We have Hydaelyn banishing Zodiark to the moon, and that creating "our" universe. Midgardsormr came from space and formed a contract with Hydaelyn to dwell here. You know what that suggests to me? That before our universe, we had Hydaelyn, Zodiark, and Midgardsormr, and likely plenty more. Hydaelyn banished Zodiark and changed everything, and Midgardsormr (and whoever else) got caught in the cross fire. I'm far more interested in his account and opinions at this point than Ascian or Hydaelyns... -
02-25-2016, 04:29 AMTheodric
I think the Scions as a whole are going to become much darker. Thancred and Y'shtola seem to be heading in that direction and we can safely assume that Yda will be too if she's throwing her lot in with the Ala Mhigan Resistance. Alphinaud appears to be the voice of reason - and I suspect that Krile may side with him. I'm worried for Krile since she also possessed the Echo. Will she, too, be expected to sacrifice herself? I have to wonder if Hydaelyn pushed Ysayle in that direction. Imagine how twisted it would be if she exploited Ysayle's guilt as a means of encouraging her to sacrifice herself?
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02-25-2016, 04:33 AMFenralYes, but it's interesting to note that even though the seventh Calamity failed, the Rejoining apparently went off without a hitch. Which means perhaps there was a way all along for Rejoining to take place without the massive death toll that resets humanity. Sure, the Ascians did it anyway, but do we have any idea what they're even fighting for? Were they once like us, simply deciding it was "the only way"? Can we really tell Ishgard to forgive and start mending bridges when we aren't willing to do the same?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
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02-25-2016, 04:55 AMNalienBy their own account, to return the world to how it once was. The implications of that statement are... less than pleasant, and they've given me no reason to doubt otherwise, Elidibus is the only one who seems remotely sane, the rest seem to enjoy destruction and messing with people...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenral
Ishgard isn't forgiving Nidhogg any time soon... The wyrm is technically already dead, even if we change their mind so we can save Estinien, and his brood is our source of crafting materials for eternity...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenral
All we've gotten Ishgard to do is accept their history for what it is, and not lump all Dravanians together. I'll gladly accept that Hydaelyn screwed over Zodiark and the Ascians, but if the world as we know it is the result? I'm not going to let them destroy it. Worst case, Hydaelyn mirrors Thordan. The people of Ishgard could wonder what would be had Thordan not betrayed Dravania, or they could do the sensible thing and just get on with their lives... They could also go "Well, fairs fair, go ahead and destroy us then Nidhogg!", but that's equally insane...
I'll build bridges with Ascians when it becomes apparent that they aren't just immortal (and immoral) pricks. Elidibus and Kidibus are the closest we're getting to that at the moment though... I mean really, we're going to get uppity at Hydaelyn for sacrificing Minfilia, and then just roll over and accept the mountain of sh*t the Ascians have caused? Too our knowledge (the important part here), Hydaelyn has sacrificed one person for her means. Where do I even begin counting how many have been screwed over by the Ascians? -
02-25-2016, 05:09 AMFenral
I think the best we can do is keep the Ascians from moving their plans any further until some independent third party can confirm that we can still survive in the restored world, FF5-style. If we can, great! If we can't... well... then we're back at square one but no longer have any illusions about what we're really fighting for.