There are already two dps-tank jobs, please don't make Paladin the third.

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Originally Posted by BIinfinity

3. Cover - Increase the range to 20 y and add another beneficial effect.

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I think it was in Ragnarok Online that the "take damage for your ally" skill also transferred the buffs you had to your ally, so in our case Covering for OT or MT could also give them Sentinel, Rampart, Regen or wtv. It would be kinda useless considering you're taking damage for them, but if the effect passed on by Cover had its duration reset it could be...at least more useful than it is now. Just a random thought, though.

All the things 1.0 PLD could do sound so nice, though :(, why can't the same people re-design the class?

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

Doing so however opens another whole can of worms wherein PLD would find great difficulty in soloing any content, and his contribution be completely reliant on whether or not his/her party members choose to even utilize it. If for example the PLD is stuck in a dungeon run wherein his DPS have died on their keyboards and the healer desires only to heal, then it is simply impossible to even clear said dungeon whereas if a WAR/DRK whom are able to directly utilize their own contribution have a better chance to clear the dungeon with said DPS and healer.

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Not necessarily.
PLD could have one skill that stacks damage mitigation, DPS reduction, and enmity gain. When you don't need that much mitigation, you'd play PLD pretty much as it is now, and it wouldn't matter on most content.
But when doing really high content, it would be time to take off the kids gloves and go full turtle power !
For me PLD's mitigation could be so high that it would allow it to solo tank almost everything. Something that could allow it to take 2 Hypercompressed Plasma right in the face even with the damage buff.
(I've posted an idea for such a skill elsewhere, I can link it if you're curious)

Would it be better a better setup than using other tanks ? Not automatically since it's DPS ouput would be really really low in "turtle mode". And we all know that efficiency is measured by raidwide DPS. After all, who cares if PLD can survive 1 hour with proper healing if the party automatically wipes after 15 min ?
It would just be another strat

It is everyone's job to dps as much as possible. EVERYONE. As long as the raid does less dps with a paladin, paladin will be undesirable.

That said, paladin itself doesn't need to do the dps, it could contribute in other ways. like giving circle of scorn a 10% magic vuln up debuff. Something like that to close the gap even if it isn't coming from their own personal dps. I like the idea of pld being the unselfish tank that helps the whole raid, including and especially other tanks, with a variety of utilities. I feel like that's what pld's original design intention was, they simply failed to give it something to support dps.

I'm relatively new to FFXIV, and I couldn't help but wonder why there is so much cross-over between roles? With the mmo holy trinity, (Tanks, Healers, DPS,) the differences between the three should be magnified as much as possible!

If any tank is putting out enough DPS that is comparable to DPS classes, then obviously DPS classes need buffing, or that tank class needs nerfing. It seems that there is a fundamental game design flaw that needs to be addressed more so, and that flaw is the DPS overlap.

To fix it, tanks need to mitigate more damage, deal less damage, dungeon mobs need to deal more AA damage, damage should be normalized so there isn't a magic vs physical tank, then poof you have a stronger tanking role. If healers have time to be DPSing, then there isn't enough raid-wide damage to keep them busy. DPS are like the only role in this game that have a good role!!!

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Originally Posted by Desthro

To fix it, tanks need to mitigate more damage, deal less damage, dungeon mobs need to deal more AA damage, damage should be normalized so there isn't a magic vs physical tank, then poof you have a stronger tanking role.

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That's well and all to say, but how do you make that fun and engaging within the confines of the current battle system?

This is the thing. It's not enough to simply say that the roles in a game, in any game, must be a certain way because of whatever arbitrary reasoning or tradition. If it's not interesting from a mechanical standpoint as well as a flavor/lore/role perspective, you're not going to find many players to populate that role; and at endgame, for pug content, tanks are rare enough as it is.

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Originally Posted by AI_wass

-how do you make that fun and engaging within the confines of the current battle system?

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The current battle system allows for tankier tanks and beefier, harder-hitting dungeon mobs. Heals don't have to increase because EHP makes the healing naturally more effective on them.

As far as making tanking entertaining, I can tell you that Tanking blows because you AREN'T really that much tankier than your everyday melee dps. You aren't special when that dragoon or monk can face tank a pull without you. End game might be different, but I don't FEEL like a tank, I feel like a crappy melee DPS that has high hate mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Desthro

As far as making tanking entertaining, I can tell you that Tanking blows because you AREN'T really that much tankier than your everyday melee dps. You aren't special when that dragoon or monk can face tank a pull without you. End game might be different, but I don't FEEL like a tank, I feel like a crappy melee DPS that has high hate mechanics.

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I'm enjoying tanking as Warrior and even as Dark Knight as they fit my taste more than Paladins. I definitely feel like a warrior tank where if enemies want to wipe out my party members, I'm gonna make that difficult to do so but I'm also gonna wreck your face with my giant 2-handed axe. The skills of warriors in this game fits that very well for me. Paladins should be much more defensive than the other 2 tanks though and help provide more mitigation for the party.

Game's not balanced around casual play, so yeah given that we're 35 ilvls above the requirement for most non-alex instances, it's not unexpected. But there is no way any dps could tank in a1s. Utterly obliterated maybe.

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Originally Posted by DGladius

I'm enjoying tanking as Warrior and even as Dark Knight as they fit my taste more than Paladins. I definitely feel like a warrior tank where if enemies want to wipe out my party members, I'm gonna make that difficult to do so but I'm also gonna wreck your face with my giant 2-handed axe. The skills of warriors in this game fits that very well for me. Paladins should be much more defensive than the other 2 tanks though and help provide more mitigation for the party.

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The thing is, the tanks should all be equally viable, and just have different mechanics to get there. Otherwise you end up with with a tank market where one or more tank classes are undesirable. A little bit of a thread derail though ;) LOL

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Originally Posted by Violette

Game's not balanced around casual play, so yeah given that we're 35 ilvls above the requirement for most non-alex instances, it's not unexpected. But there is no way any dps could tank in a1s. Utterly obliterated maybe.

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The main point was addressing the lack of tanks... if it's not fun to level a tank, because you feel unimportant, then there will be less tanks to play. It's just one more thing that needs to be addressed and addressed appropriately.