Tanks&Healers; please focus on Role first, then DPS

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Originally Posted by bloodSp3c

for healers, in patch 3.2, yoshi p is gonna disable every dps ability while in battle, so y'all can shut up about saying healers are bad/not playing to full potential/whatever by not dpsing...

:rolleyes::rolleyes::cool:

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Then we damage those monster by... cure! (Undead for specific)

I'm going to say this straight up:

I have seen SO MANY HEALERS/TANKS saying they are 'one of the good ones', only to blame the other healer for not solo healing phase X While they DPS. There are some parts where it's reasonable. Phase 1 of A1S is easily solo healed. Phase 1 of Thordan EX is easily solo healed. The issue becomes when they try to DPS 24/7 and think that makes them a good healer.


And every tank/healer I meet that says "well I'm one of the good ones ;)" ultimately has proven that they're not - because they let a tank die, a dps die, or someone die to unavoidable damage. It is not that 'the tank stands in stupid' and dies. It is that 'two tanks took holy blade dance with their teeth while the healer was DPS'ing and only one healer doing their job isn't enough to keep two DPS tanks up who don't want to mitigate while the other healer dps's."

Like I said. Focus on your role first (Tank - Mitigation/threat. Healer - Healing/mitigation) and then dps. I'm not saying don't dps at all - I encourage dps when it's comfortable. But if someone dies own up to it.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

"Having jobs focus on their job on this game? Nah, too busy to do it. Let's just push DPS meta into every role! Y'know, we'll have the support from some players who never experienced the whole FF franchise anyway and are used to it in other games."

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heh, actually, in the FF franchise, tanks have some monstrous damaging moves (PLD ftw). But again, traditionnal FFs are all about glasscannons/behemoth/supports/mages anyway, not the trinity

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Originally Posted by Donjo

When it comes to what a Tank usually is in an MMO - a Traditional Tank - Paladin comes closer to that than anything else in the game, whereas DRK/WAR are the oddballs.

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Still missing significant Crowd Control to be a true traditional tank, but yeah they are the closest to the real thing.

But there is no crowd control at all in FFxiv (who has used sleeping or binding in a life & death situation since early 2.0 when noone had appropriate gear ?)

CC is almost completly dead in Group PvE. Most MMOs that still have CC are needing it only for PvP purpose and maybe some Solo PvE.

This mainly started because people wer too impatient trying to get world first on Alex savage when it was meant to be gear threw a few weeks. This is pretty much the reason people keep complaining about PLD dps.

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Originally Posted by SonKevin

Nah, brah. I already know how DRK works. They're the "tank" class that listens to Hawthorn Heights in a dark room while cutting themselves to get power. Why anyone would want a tank class like that is beyond my understanding. PLD on the other hand is THE tank class that stands at the forefront of society. Standing up to all evil with a sword in one hand to deliver justice and a shield in another hand to protect all he cherishes from harm. PLD is the type of class that your parents tell you they're proud of you while DRK is the type of class that your parents just sigh and wish you would move out of the basement.


Of course I would. I have to uphold justice.

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DRK is actually represents justice more than PLD. They kill off corrupt knights and priests who use their power to benefit themselves all the while causing problems for the common people.

PLD is preaty much a body guard. But yes I hate the current tank meta of need higher dps I'd love to be able to sit at 20k in hp.

Offensive healers are awesome, as long as they don't let anyone dies.

Tanks with Strength accessories can be good in specific content but not in some content (mostly the ones that sync your level or ilevel). Playing as a healer with these Str tanks in low level dungeons is annoying. It's ok for them to sacrifice some Vit for Str in content that they're way overgeared but in level-synced content if they have full Str accessories they're gonna have less Vit than the content designed for they to have, thus forcing the healer to stay in healing stance all the time to save their lazy ass. Healer's attacks are better than Str tank's attacks anyway. Sacrificing healer's chance to attack for Str tank isn't a good thing.

I only switch to Deliverance for quick double cleaving, and when there is downtime from boss and I need to help with mechanics. I NEVER stay in Deliverance longer than a double cleave(I can triple but that is very risky) otherwise. I wear VIT rings only, the rest STR. Kinda hard to find a balance.

For healing, this depends on the rate of incoming damage the tank is receiving. If they are receiving so much where a Divine Seal'd Regen(which is a free cure I just about) is doing nothing for them, then I can't DPS.

I have had the pleasure of healing a WAR that full time'd deliverance but at least he used CDs. I can't say the same about the PLD I had in fractal the other day.

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Originally Posted by missybee

Honestly, I think people should push their DPS as much as they can.

That said, they shouldn't forget that their foremost duty is to either heal or tank. Healing or tanking shouldn't come at the cost of DPS.

Tank and healer DPS can speed things up immensely, but a lack of restraint can cause wipes...and wipes definitely don't speed things up.

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add to this DPS which can avoid AoE's and don't, then will come the big stuff from the Boss, so the Healers are 'forced' to heal them instead of the Tank or healer DPS.. and there you go.

in a trinity system, all should do what their role calls for first off. Then, the DPS will come.

DPS have to do damage AND avoid all that they can.. I've seen so many standing right there and thinking the Healer will take care of them (newsflash: Tanks needs to be kept alive.. ) a dead DPS can be a wipe, even if healers and tanks are doing their jobs.

The trend here is mostly because everyone wants to rush things out.

if you clear it in 2 more minutes, it's still a clear versus trying to do it in 2 min less, but wiping.. and waste time retrying it, with uncertainty that you'll succeed this time, then, a third time, if no RQuitters are gone after 1 attempt lololol

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Originally Posted by bloodSp3c

for healers, in patch 3.2, yoshi p is gonna disable every dps ability while in battle, so y'all can shut up about saying healers are bad/not playing to full potential/whatever by not dpsing...

:rolleyes::rolleyes::cool:

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I'm actually not going to be surprised if they disable cleric stance in instanced content much like they already have in PVP.

And while we're throwing opinions left and right, back in 2.X and even now in 3.X I still can't help but wish MNK was a tank Job instead of WAR. WAR has always felt like a DPS except for the moment holmgang goes out. It works and I enjoyed it as a tank, but then there's this feeling that Monk could have been so much more in line with PLD.

Get rid of the directional requirements, put enmity generators on True Strike, Snap Fist, Arm of the destroyer, and Rockbreaker, and allow the already established combo system. You have this feeling of always needing to weave your attacks depending on the situation, but having a solution for everything. This would have also allowed One Ilm Punch to actually be useful because either MNK was always in the party, or PLD's sheild allowed it to soak up any extra damage coming out. MNK would also have a more useful anti-knockback than WAR through shoulder tackle (after it got down from 90sec).

Greased Lightning could simply switch out attack damage or speed for a defensive gain; their moving so fluidly and swiftly that landing a direct hit would be difficult or recieve bonus healing. Fist of Earth for tank stance. Monk would also provide traited Mantra, a self heal, evasion buff for trash, Int down, silence, stun (possibly two), and it wouldn't be doing absurd burst damage which would have kept it and PLD inline of DPS.

MNK's would essentially be the Shonen main character that always fights with its fist and can take godly levels of punishment. WAR could go onto be a self sustaining, berserking DPS in the same armor as DRG. And quite frankly MNK could have gone heavy armor. Lots of the shonen type wear weighted gear, actual martial artist do as well. Every other patch we could have had armor that was knightly, and then armor that was more flowing. The bulky fist weapons would have worked with the bulky armor as well.

But eh, just rambling for the sake of it.