Monk's Heavensward abilities

Monks got a lot of DPS improvements from heavensward and the following patches so far.

Demolish Duration Increase. Shoulder Tackle fix. Elixer Drive. Forbidden Chakra. Purification. GL duration increase. 3% Dmg buff. Tornado Kick.

I think we got a lot more stuff than many other classes.

Just to put in perspective about how good Shoulder Tackle is, notice how Howling Fist is 170 Potency every Minute, Shoulder Tackle is 100 Potency every 30 Seconds. You can treat the shoulder tackle the same as them buffing Howling Fist to 370 Potency every Minute. I personally think that's just.. just so swell.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I agree, 10 attempts isn't a big sample size. I do not have time to test it all day though. My evidence from my tests is the best we have at the moment, anyone else, feel free to come along with a larger sample size and help figure out if RNG really does fail to cause a major difference. In my tests, it did not make a notable difference. I am simply noting a strong trend in my testing of it.

Also, my dps was between 1100-1200ish on each attempt minus the disconnected one, not particularly low or high given my gear, not using pots, etc.

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No offense, but conducting a 'test' that would barely be sufficient for a pilot study and then claiming that the results are sufficient to undermine mathematical fact is...bold.

You can not conclude anything meaningful with your data. The only value your data has currently is that there might be grounds for further tests. Even then that's generous. Being said you've only presented vague conclusions in the form of ; 'not a big difference'. So I'm not even sure why I'm referring to it as 'data'.

The best we have (that I know of) in terms of evidence is just simply doing the math. I can only see three scenarios in which you're right;

1. The tool-tip is incorrect. It gives a different value from the stated in the tool-tip. This happens in MMOs frequently.

2. There is a bug causing the FoF to give less damage than the tool-tip states. Maybe race/class combo, weapon, etc. God knows MMOs have a lot of moving parts.

3. % DMG buffs are additive. I could be wrong all along. Which wouldn't still address the issues in your testing methods.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I also did not fail 6 attempts. I failed on one attempt due to a temporary disconnect. Where did you get 6 attempts....?

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Originally Posted by Adire

Each time the same thing occurred, no mistakes were made in my rotation on 4 of the attempts, had a minor disconnect on one however but the other times, the same thing occurred. DPS increase was small.

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Feel free to correct me, but I read that as; 'I screwed the pooch 6 times'.

Ultimately, the bottom line is this. You're trying to assert a very bold claim. For illustrations sake (not a 1 to 1 analogy, before someone gets their panties in a twist), you're trying to assert that the sky isn't blue. Now you may well be correct - it's in my best interests to hear you out - I would like to know if the sky is indeed not blue.

But you need to come with a metric fuckload of evidence. Your claim, your onus. Simply stating that your 'conclusions' are the 'best we have' because we can't be assessed spending hours countermanding what is essentially axiomatic - isn't how the burden of proof works. Especially when I can see the problem with your testing methods from the beginning. Now if you presented rock solid evidence that was methodologically sound (good luck, human error is going to destroy many parses alone), then I'd be far more inclined to investigate.

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Originally Posted by RapBreon

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Relax dude. Someone already posted a parse they did testing it, though said post was deleted, I've concluded that my parses must have been inaccurate, as I mentioned was a high possibility in a previous post. I play The Secret World in addition to this and it's likely my setup for that is interfering with my setup for FFXIV. Hence why my numbers were showing incorrectly, hence why I thought FoF was such a miserable increase to DPS (but still acknowledged my numbers could be inaccurate in a previous post).

And I will correct you. What I meant was I did 5 attempts with FoF on. I did 5 attempts with it off. I compared each attempt. On one of my FoF on attempts, I had a disconnect, hence why I mentioned that result as being off. One botched FoF on attempt, 4 non-botched FoF on attempts. There was no "screwing of the pooch" as you word it involved.

As badly as you seem to want to believe otherwise, I can assure you I know how to do a proper rotation. I even frequently get compliments on my DPS. So yeah....don't jump the gun and assume what other people's meanings are, it makes you look silly. The fact that your immediate assumption was that I only managed 4 successful parses out of 10 because of my failure at playing monk is insulting.

But if it tickles your pickle and makes you feel proud, yes, I'll say you were right about how much dps FoF adds, it is noticeable. I'm more than happy to admit when I'm wrong about something, even if the reason I'm wrong was due to the base information being flawed and being out of my control until having a way to discover it was flawed.

Prior to this discussion, I've been going off launch numbers and my own parses because I had no reason to do otherwise. This discussion has enlightened me to the fact that what I've suspected for a while (due to other small bugs showing as well), my installation being corrupted, is true.

You were all right, I was wrong, thanks to a software glitch. The condescending attitudes and passive aggressive responses I was greeted with for simply stating something I was incorrect about, but something that all the information I had about from launch statistics and my own (corrupted) parses support, was unnecessary, but well, we're on the official forums after all. Anyone who was present for launch should know that DRGs were parsing highest for a time, my parses were incorrectly showing FoF's affect on my dps, so when I looked at monk only getting a 3% damage buff and after not keeping up with recent parses since I play this casually and stopped checking on the current top parses after launch, can you really blame me for thinking how I did?

With FoF's effects on my dps showing incorrectly and far lower than it should be and not suspecting that of all things, FoF was something specifically bugged in my installation, I had every reason to believe 3% to be extremely insignificant, and with it being the only raw dps increase for monk since launch, and with parses being considerably different at launch, you can put 2 and 2 together to see where my reasoning was coming from and why I was very skeptical.

I had a similar discussion with some people in my LS earlier, they told me similar things to what was said here by you fine folks, without the attitudes (and now swearing?). A shame for you particularly, because prior to the last couple of posts, particularly this one, you've been pretty non-confrontational, unlike trailmix whose first words to me was a stern, condescending "Let's get one thing straight". But yeah, you were right. Hopefully that brightens your day some. I'm done with this thread though, no reason for me to stick around now. Thanks for helping me clearly figure out my install is borked more than I realized at least, I guess. I was wondering a little if there were more things than I realized going wrong with it for a while.

Oh, and for the record, the person who showed the results of their tests did only 8 tests (4 with FoF, 4 without), yet the difference between their results with FoF on vs off was quite high. So there's no need for this burden of proof nonsense. I provided what I could, someone else provided what they could, the differences demonstrated something was off with my results. Thankfully, some people work with others to figure things out rather than yell "burden of proof!" at everything and sit on their hands. What good would me fulfilling your burden of proof demands have done if I had done all the testing? None at all, because my installation was corrupted. It would have caused incorrect information to be spread actually. A perfect testing method doing it hundreds of times on my part would have looked great, but still would have shown incorrect information because of my installation being flawed.

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Originally Posted by Adire

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Cultural thing; swearing isn't really offensive here. I can also see how two my idioms (especially the one about panties) may have seemed passive aggressive. The panties in a twist wasn't really aimed at you, but at that inevitable smartarse who climaxes at the mere thought of pointing out why the analogy isn't a perfect fit. I can see how you could interpret that as a passive aggressive attack though. My apologies for those things. The whole thing probably reads fairly aggressive if you're not used to the tone I suppose.

I can't blame you for thinking what you did. Nobody should. I understand very well how you arrived at your conclusions (I have made similar mistakes in my past). It wasn't that you were wrong, there is zero shame in being wrong. It was that you would not relinquish that your obviously out-of-date comparisons and flaws in your analytical approach and then continued to insist you were correct. Your entire argument was mostly just temerity of purpose. Compounding this was the fact that you would only accept one form of proof - despite being offered others and got quite combative in your own right when you got cornered further and further. I don't even really blame you for that, taking people's words at face value (even when it makes a shitload of sense) can be difficult, I've been as guilty of it as you are. I do blame you for trying to 'score a point' before leaving the debate by trying to take the moral high-ground though.

I'm mildly apologetic that you feel like you're being attacked, but you reap what you sow; you're no better than us here.

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Originally Posted by Adire

Because since then the only buff monk has gotten directly to its damage is the 3% buff, and I am not convinced it has offset launch numbers for damage ceilings as much as people here are claiming.

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What more proof do you need than than fflogs shows monks at the top of savage lol