Religion is bad, M'kay?

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

In the grand scheme of things there is no good or evil, only reason we have such perceptions is how our society is currently built, you would be a fool to assume it couldn't possibly change to something you or I would perceive as 'wrong' or that the world is black and white. Fairness isn't real either.

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Then you should look forward to social acceptance of pedophilia, animal cruelty, rape, mass murder, necrophilia, theft, oppression, and so, so, so many more that are natural. (There's no such thing as "consent" in the animal kingdom- that is also a human social construct, a lie people tell themselves, if you're willing to subscribe to that view.) If this is true, then any horrible thing that happens to you is just a matter of your own opinion and would not warrant any sympathy. Yes, I could empathize with you, but being a relativist would make me emotionally detached from your suffering as I ignore you and move along to commit subjectively horrible things to everyone.

Okay, so a bunch of meta topics will literally go on forever, which is the reason I previously stated that I preferred not to talk too much about my own living experience beyond the game, so getting the thread back on track to some extent- lorewise.

What exactly is the basis of this world, does Evil and Good exist in Hydaelyn, or is it merely "Light and Dark"? From what I get so far, Hydaelyn is good, and is Light, and so the Warrior of Light is necessarily good, right? But by what standards? There doesn't seem to be a central authority in the "ways of Hydaelyn" other than the Scions, but they don't seem to be an institution through which a person goes through their whole lives to mark their birth, growth, and death. I'm guessing it's like how Japanese treat Buddhism and Shinto- Birth and Life-related is Shinto/Gridania and Death is Buddhist/Uldah?

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Originally Posted by IoannesBellator

Just because Shakespeare said it, doesn't mean it's true. Othello is a cautionary tale about what happens when black men get together with white women; Merchant of Venice says "Jews should convert to Christianity, no matter how right they are." do you still wish to quote Shakespeare or conveniently pick what suits your agenda? That's what Islamic terrorists do, and if it's all the same to you, then let me do it with the Bible and you should not be shocked.

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Um uh, actually I was re-quoting the Shakespear quote that was used as nomura's tagline for FF vs13, now Tabata's FF15. <nervous laugh> Tbh Im not 100% sure which play it was pulled from. I've only read Mcbeth, Julius Caesar, and Romeo&Juliet all the way through.

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Originally Posted by IoannesBellator

If I didn't believe in God nor in His Church, I WOULD object to the portrayal of Garleans as being offensive; there are many people who think that there's nothing wrong with engaging in realpolitik- that was the mentality that launched World Wars: It wasn't because Jesus told them to make war, but because of the mindset that there is no Heaven nor God; all you have is this Earth and its limited resources, and you should be as brutal as possible to get what you want, even at the individual level- it's the other person's fault that they lost out and they deserve to lose, and you to thrive and pass on your genes for no other purpose than it being embedded into your genetic code.

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The people who launched the World Wars were Catholic and believe what they were doing was going to get them into heaven they were trying to force people to accept Christianity and if they disagreed with Christianity they would die. That was the mentality that launched the World Wars.

Let's just say that extremism in any direction is bad instead of pointing fingers at what we personally believe is and isn't right.

Or, if you want to go that route...
"There's only two things in this world I can't stand: people who are intolerant of other peoples' cultures... and the Dutch!"

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The people who launched the World Wars were Catholic and believe what they were doing was going to get them into heaven they were trying to force people to accept Christianity and if they disagreed with Christianity they would die. That was the mentality that launched the World Wars.

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I thought that was the mentality that started the crusades? Cause if I'm not mistaken, The Collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire was what started WW1 and The Economic Penalties on Germany paved the way to WW2.

The Catholics aren't innocent by any means but they can't be blamed for everything either.

Religion =/= Bad. Crazy Nut Jobs = Bad.

We have Thorden VII who was a crazy nut job WITH a religion, we have Nael van Darnus who was a Crazy Nut Job WITHOUT a religion, then we have the Ascians who are crazy nutjobs not modifier needed.

Ya see? It's fanatical nut jobs that are the problem. And any that claim a religion just bring that religion down in the mud. For Ex. IRL Jihadism is a real problem but they're just nut jobs pretending to be muslim. I know Islamic people and they aren't Jihadists. I've read the Quran side by side with the Christian Bible and they say almost the exact same thing with different wording or from a different perspective at most.

So, to recap, Religion=Neutral, Nut Jobs=Bad, and Nut Jobs who pretend they are part of a religion = The Religion getting a bad rep because of them.

The main problem is that somehow these nut jobs tend to get into positions of power in organized western religions (though it could just be the power they gain turns them into said nutjobs). But yes, it is crazy nutjobs that are the core issue with why things go south.

Well the problem there is that Western religions tend to be absolutist; they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is wrong. This gives followers of the faith a common enemy, and as we all know nothing brings people together quite like having someone or something they can all hate.

And so the problem with non-Western religions is that they can get away with being wishy-washy since they are filled with magical thought than rational philosophy. It had been the last stages of Aristotelian/Platonic philosophy that had arrived to the conclusion reiterated by Western religions: 1.What ever begins to exist has a cause. 2.The universe began to exist. 3. Therefore, the universe has a cause. If you believe the Universe existed forever, then you must not know how the Law of Thermodynamics works- namely that processes in a closed system reaches for equilibrium; if infinite, the universe would've ran out of energy long ago. Since the universe can't cause itself, then the cause must be beyond the Universe, beyond space, time, immaterial, eternal, and powerful. Much better than an egg or whatever it is they believe in eastern religions.

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Originally Posted by IoannesBellator

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The Final Fantasy series do not portray organized religion as evil. They portray fanatism and blind (mass) murder in the name of a god. Things organized religious groups.. err, tend to do at some point in their history (unless they get crushed before, that is).

I have yet to find any "Religion = Evil" message in any FF I've played. All the games featuring crystals are basically "save these gods and the world with them", FFVI has nothing against the espers but

Kefka is one psychotic murderous god so we kill him

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in FFVII you're saving a god against an alien, in FFT you're fighting against fanatics abusing the powers of the gods, not the religion itself. Can't comment on 8 & 9 as I have yet to do them.

FFX : the religion itself is corrupted at its core because of a misunderstanding.

In the end you put it on rails again and the belief itself brings no harm anymore upon Spira

FFXII : nothing to do with religion directly, more "abuse of political power"

can't comment on 13.

in FFXIV the gods as we fight them are just Aether-sucking illusions. And Ishgard has a particular case of fanatism, but the religion of the Twelves in itself has yet to be pictured as "bad".