Done with AST

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Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

The reason why WHM has incredible prevalence in current content is due to the fact that they have many means to boost their healing output. They aren't there to have competition with SCH's niche, they're there because their healing power is unparalleled. On top of their healing power, they bring the highest healer DPS compared to WHM and SCH in both AoE and single target.



ED gets to 994 potency (400 + (600 * missingHealth%)) if your target has 1% of their max health. It is a nice CD that I cherish but this is literally your only burst heal. As a SCH, I have the potential for three in a time spam of 60s with a 1s CD. WHM has Tetra along with Benediction, the only % based heal in the game right now.



This sounds like you're overhealing by a lot. HPS doesn't mean anything if people aren't really taking damage. LightSpeed doesn't boost your HPS by what you're thinking because it doesn't reduce the GCD. It is more or less a tool for mana conservation and mobility. Synastry never worked with AoE nor ED. They also do not extend the added effects of your cures but I agree, it is a really good CD. It is a good CD but WHMs DS Regens on top of Asylum give a good means of dealing with both tanks. SCH has Rouse + Pet which is comparable/surpasses for much, much cheaper in MP cost.



Yes buffs do scale multiplicatively but the thing here is, can you actually have this on command to sync with the DRGs buffs and do these short buffs make up for the SCH beating you by 100 DPS or more in single target?

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They are suppose to bring the highest healing to the game. Astro is suppose to be a middle man between the two and bring mini cooldowns to make up for lack of burst or mitigation abilities of the scholar. It does it well and your average potency at 20% will be around 800 followed up by another 500 potency nocturnal aspect is easily on par with anything lustrate and white mage tetra which is what noc is used for. Strong single target migitation. I will be the first to agree noc aspected helios is so bad two normal helios is better. But your aoe healing is not affected one bit and if you go by hps then aspected ben along with helios aspect ends up being majorly overhealing so pure hps cannot be a contributing factor.

ED gets to 994 potency (400 + (600 * missingHealth%)) if your target has 1% of their max health. It is a nice CD that I cherish but this is literally your only burst heal. As a SCH, I have the potential for three in a time spam of 60s with a 1s CD. WHM has Tetra along with Benediction, the only % based heal in the game right now.

Yes you can use lustrate 3 times in a row which is 600 potency heal but with nocturnal you can spam infinitely instant casts 500 potency heals while not having to give up charges used for other mechanics in the scholar toolkit. Unlike every other astro it seems thats bad mouthing noc over trying to use it in the way it should be (not side by side comparison of the 5k scholar shields) as a mitigation and patch healing stance complimenting the white mage. Yes your regen stacks with white mage but our team uses an astrologian and a white mage/scholar and even though we started raiding just two nights ago we almost have Ravana extreme down.

Two other teams I know on my server are in A2 right now and one uses an Astrologian that USES nocturnal and says it does its job if you do not pretend you are a weaker scholar. I feel that Astrologian dps spells could be cheaper to make up for its mana issues (which it does have) almost requiring the astro to use a card cooldown AND another cooldown just to extend their mana refresh ability.

To say that Astrologian weak compared to white mage and scholar is just mis information spread and some of us do not want to see the Astrologian have potency increases because it doesnt need it. Ive seen astrologians parse very well utilizing noc/lightspeed/ben 2 bring both tank from 20% to full in a few casts with a well timed Synastry. Astrologian's have the tools and what they need is to be allowed to be the go between both playstyle healers and not be locked out once combat begins. Shifting from Noc to Ben would solve all issues minus offensive power with mana.

And Synastry being overhealing is just conjecture. If you throw it out recklessly then yes it can be seen that way. Allow shuffle to not double draw same card, change Collective consciousness to let you stance dance while the buff is on with maybe a 60 second cooldown and fix mana issues with astro and that should fix the issues.

These posts. We did the math. So it must be true.

I know personally I could have cleared A2 Savage on Astrologian given some more time, but for the sake of making things EASIER and much SMOOTHER for my raid and co-healer, I ended up switching to White Mage where everyone could utilize their full potential. My SCH Co-Healer can effectively burst out DPS without having to make up for my lack of anything. This is the point most people are trying to get across but a lot of people keep trying to White Knight Astrologian like nothing's wrong. Open your eyes.

We get it. We know they are CAPABLE of doing it. Is it more EFFECIENT than WHM/SCH? No. If you think it is, you might want to reconsider your idea of efficiency.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

These posts. We did the math. So it must be true.

I know personally I could have cleared A2 Savage on Astrologian given some more time, but for the sake of making things EASIER and much SMOOTHER for my raid and co-healer, I ended up switching to White Mage where everyone could utilize their full potential. My SCH Co-Healer can effectively burst out DPS without having to make up for my lack of anything. This is the point most people are trying to get across but a lot of people keep trying to White Knight Astrologian like nothing's wrong. Open your eyes.

We get it. We know they are CAPABLE of doing it. Is it more EFFECIENT than WHM/SCH? No. If you think it is, you might want to reconsider your idea of efficiency.

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You keep speaking of scholar dps and white mage superior healing. I am not fighting against SE fixing mana issues when we throw out our dots. My issue is everyone asking for potency buffs which we dont need. Or stronger healing cooldowns which we have. Our utility is enough to merit our slightly weaker potency in heals.

You honestly seem more interested in playing a white mage and just shrug your shoulders throwing blame on your static. Astrologian is not for everyone. You are an in between stronger healers and stronger supporting dps. It is suppose to be a more of a middle man healer compared to the two extremes of the others. You make up for it with cards that are strong in the right hands but do require precision coordination with dps that is almost silly in regards to the fire and forget utility of some other jobs. But if you do coordiate properly the cards are powerful enough to compare side by side with scholar and white mage.

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Yes you can use lustrate 3 times in a row which is 600 potency heal but with nocturnal you can spam infinitely instant casts 500 potency heals while not having to give up charges used for other mechanics in the scholar toolkit.

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I honestly can't believe people are throwing this around. No, Aspected Benefic (Noct) is NOT a 500 potency heal; it's a 250 potency heal with a 250 potency shield. It's does not double on crit, and cannot be used "infinitely", as it costs MP. It is not a replacement for Lustrate; it's an insta-cast mini-Adlo without the ability to crit.

Useful for clutch saves? Yes.

Replacement for Lustrate? No.

Why? You still have to follow-up with something to top the person off afterwards, whereas Lustrate is almost always enough to just pop and keep going.

Please, stop spreading misinformation.

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Originally Posted by Rahaya

You should see a large number of the proposed buffing threads =P

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Trust me, I think AST needs some work - I think perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying? There are just so many people in these threads claiming we want the job to be OP for the sake of being OP and I dont think most of us feel that way at all - we just want it to be Viable, which I would venture to guess you want as well.

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Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn

I honestly can't believe people are throwing this around. No, Aspected Benefic (Noct) is NOT a 500 potency heal; it's a 250 potency heal with a 250 potency shield. It's does not double on crit, and cannot be used "infinitely", as it costs MP. It is not a replacement for Lustrate; it's an insta-cast mini-Adlo without the ability to crit.

Useful for clutch saves? Yes.

Replacement for Lustrate? No.

Why? You still have to follow-up with something to top the person off afterwards, whereas Lustrate is almost always enough to just pop and keep going.

Please, stop spreading misinformation.

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So can Aspect crit. Big deal? It is effective as a 500 potency heal in regards to recovering from damage taken. It heals for about 1500 and shields for about 1500 on an instant cast that easily puts enough buffer in any raid encounter to make the difference. If I hit you with noc ben for a 1500 point heal and 1500 point shield and you get hit for 4k it is still 3k difference in damage healed and nullified. No if you look at it as a straight up heal then you are right it is only a 250 point heal.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

So can Aspect crit. Big deal? I never said that lustrate could not crit. It is effective as a 500 potency heal in regards to recovering from damage taken. It heals for about 1500 and shields for about 1500 on an instant cast that easily puts enough buffer in any raid encounter to make the difference. If I hit you with noc ben for a 1500 point heal and 1500 point shield and you get hit for 4k it is still 3k difference in damage healed and nullified. No if you look at it as a straight up heal then you are right it is only a 250 point heal.

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So in that same mindset Succor = Medica, right?

We all know how untrue that is.

There's also a 100 potency difference between A. Benefic and Lustrate, and when you factor in crit, that's a major difference in total healing power. Lustrate (at iLvl 183) heals for between 4.1-4.2k on non-crit, and upwards of 6.5k+ on a crit. Is that the same as a 1.5k heal and 1.5k shield? No. A Benefic is also effected by the GCD, whereas Lustrate can be spammed OGCD without a 2.5s "wait" before casting again. Can A Benefic do that? No. Even spamming A Benefic twice on the same target, you get 3k HP and 1.5k shield, and spamming Lustrate twice will result in 8.2k-8.4k at least. Is that the same? No.

Saying A. Benefic = Lustrate is outright incorrect.

I haven't played my SCH post 50 but if Lustrate is still capable of the 3 repetitive casts then nothing AST has competes with it. All casts involve GCD between or during casts OR really long CDs. If I spammed 5 Aspected Benefics in either stance it wouldn't compare to the usefulness of the 3 Lustrates.

If Lustrate got a GCD with it's potency adjustment then that's a super nerf.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

You keep speaking of scholar dps and white mage superior healing. I am not fighting against SE fixing mana issues when we throw out our dots. My issue is everyone asking for potency buffs which we dont need. Or stronger healing cooldowns which we have. Our utility is enough to merit our slightly weaker potency in heals.


You honestly seem more interested in playing a white mage and just shrug your shoulders throwing blame on your static. Astrologian is not for everyone. You are an in between stronger healers and stronger supporting dps. It is suppose to be a more of a middle man healer compared to the two extremes of the others. You make up for it with cards that are strong in the right hands but do require precision coordination with dps that is almost silly in regards to the fire and forget utility of some other jobs. But if you do coordiate properly the cards are powerful enough to compare side by side with scholar and white mage.

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More interested in White Mage? No, not really. WHM isn't really super special or interesting. It just makes things easier. Period. It's super straight forward. DS Regen and Medica II, Asylum and the HoTs will typically keep the tanks up enough for you to actually toggle Cleric Stance to DPS. Even if you can't, guess what your co-healer can do while you main heal? You guessed it! DPS! Strong healing Cool Downs? What is that? Lightspeed? While Lightspeed is MUCH better than it used to be, it's only available every 2 minutes and 30 seconds IIRC. While Divine Seal itself is on a minute timer along with lalalala Tetragammaton. Even Asylum and Assize are up before the re-use of Lightspeed. You don't see anything wrong with this do you? The best AST gets is Essential Dignity on 40 recast and it's efficiency lies on the lower the health of a person gets. However, once this is blown and they're thrown back into the red, what are you going to do? Lightspeed? Fair enough. Now Lightspeed and ED are down, tanks are in red again, what's next? Nothing. You spam Benefic 2 for deal life and cry because the potencies are weaker than that of Cure II. (Ideally weaving in the predecessors for procs, but I believe this is just basic knowledge)

Yes, AST has some interesting mechanics with their cards. But time and time again, it falls upon RNG to bless you with the cards that you need to actually promote these "buffs that compare to WHM and SCH". Consistency is key. That's what people seek for in progression. Not RNG. Here's something else to consider...Are you always going to be throwing out Buffed Balance cards to your DPS in progression? No. You might be throwing yourself or your Co-Healer an Ewer for MP management. Or Spire for the DPS. There's these factors you need to consider too and not just the 100% Balance all the time. Stop speaking from a OPTIMAL situation and try and more REALISTIC scenario where you are NOT getting the cards you want all the time. The time you spend throwing cards or using cards for RR preparation, you Co-Healer could be DPSing but they potentially CAN NOT because AST has trouble managing on their own on Raid Wide damage. Single Target? Not so much. But dual damage on tanks? Depends on how much they're taking. But AS2? Possibly manageable, but Synastry isn't always going to be there to help you.

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Originally Posted by Nasrin

Yes yes another one of these "oh no AST sux lol plz buff us" threads but I would just like SE to see that there's yet another AST unhappy with their job.

Now don't get me wrong I like the flare of the class, and I can even deal with the RNG cards. But when a WHM can follow a tank into a dungeon where the tank pulls 2+ groups of mobs and be fine, and I will go dry on MP before the mobs come to half and most of the time the tank doesn't even survive that long because I simply do not have the throughput, is rubbish.

So I'll be going back to my WHM with a full healing kit until you fix this poor job you so deem a "healer". I understand we have utility in card's that can do all kind's of cool things. And for other classes, such as BRDs and MCHs that deal a bit less damage because of their utility that's cool. But it simply does not work for a healing class. Just wanted to express my dissatisfaction with a class I was looking forward to playing and not beta testing. Thanks.

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Can we all stop talking about Savage and get to the OP's point? OP is not anywhere near Savage if he can't heal regular level 60 dungeons (and going by how many "likes" his post got, a lot of other AST's are in the same situation).

AST has no problems with Neverreap, Fractal, or Alex Normal. I haven't done Bis Ex yet. Let's just all acknowledge that for that content, healing is fine (even in big pulls), mana is fine, buffs and dps are fine. I'm sure WHM/SCH is probably easier, but it's not difficult doing that stuff on AST and yes I run DF all day so I've seen all sorts of groups.

We all agree the class could use some work for harder content but the above stuff that OP seems to be discussing, and that most AST's are doing right now, is really not hard. Any AST that is having difficulty with that stuff just needs to improve a bit.