Curious on opinion. Smn or Mch. Which would you pick?

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Originally Posted by Kona_Nightwind

I was trying to make it simple. Mch/BRD dps buff uptime is a lot more than those other classes. If you take into account all the utility, most groups in savage will bring them for progression. All current content can be cleared with every class so what's the problem.

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Problem it's just You have to play like DRG/NIN/MNK/SMN/BLM if during NON-progress You dont wanna feel like a burden for your team. There are people who never feel like a burden and They are doing no dps and eating every AoE possible :)

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

Problem it's just You have to play like DRG/NIN/MNK/SMN/BLM if during NON-progress You dont wanna feel like a burden for your team. There are people who never feel like a burden and They are doing no dps and eating every AoE possible :)

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MCH/BRD isn't that far behind that it'd be considered a burden. I don't necessarily agree that they should naturally be low on dps just for being a "support" class, esp when they already do less damage for using support abilities, but it's nowhere near the abyssal levels as it was before (and even that wasn't enough to justify benching them)

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

If We do that, DRG and NIN are the best Supports ever. Battle Litany + Trick Attack.
At the moment my party doesn't need TP or MP, I got tired to be a burden for my team and I'm playing like NIN every encounter, and I'm doing the best support like NIN, every 60 seconds, all my mates do +10% damage, and I'm top/second DPS...THAT IS TRUE SUPPORT !!!!

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If you feel like a burden, then again either your party or yourself are lacking. There is no excuse for not being able to down current content unless someone(s) are bad and holding people back.

MCH is a ranged class, meaning it will typically have to deal with less danger, has a turret that can probably (Not 100% sure) act as a damage soak (T5/T9 as examples where you benefit from extra bodies to sponge damage) has MP/TP support, the ability to increase damage of party members with turret debuff as well as other minor support abilities of bind/heavy/silence/stun and minor damage reduction. It also has exceptional burst potential both with single and AoE thanks to Wildfire and Rapid Fire.

I do not see a burden here so long as your playing correctly/optimally. Asking to do Melee comparable DPS is asinine as being ranged is usually a large advantage. We may also choose to go mobile range, lowering damage on GCDs but gain instant casts and AA's back and continue uptime whereas a melee would be SOL until able to connect with the target once more.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

Problem it's just You have to play like DRG/NIN/MNK/SMN/BLM if during NON-progress You dont wanna feel like a burden for your team. There are people who never feel like a burden and They are doing no dps and eating every AoE possible :)

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If your able to clear then there isn't any burden from the class, its the players. What your saying equates to brayflox hard mode, where the only dps ppl WANTED to bring was black mages and bards for the aoe to optimize speed runs. Is It optimal for farming? Probably not, but it is by no means a burden.

As were all humans, mistakes can and will be made at times. Having a mch/brd for the tp/mp regen can potentially save what would of been a botched attempt.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

Problem it's just You have to play like DRG/NIN/MNK/SMN/BLM if during NON-progress You dont wanna feel like a burden for your team. There are people who never feel like a burden and They are doing no dps and eating every AoE possible :)

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The classes aren't burdens, the players are. The BLM pulling 300 dps and dying to mechanics is a burden, because I have to change my entire playstyle to account for him. The MCH pulling 700 dps and following mechanics, doesn't phase me at all.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

/clap
Archer 7 MCH 0
/clap

Now tell us how You saw a BRD or a MCH doing the same DPS than You with NIN...
/clap

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My BRD homey does 9XX dps in Alex sustained. The only time he drops lower is if he has to use TP or Mana song because other people can't manage their resources.

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Originally Posted by Korashy

My BRD homey does 9XX dps in Alex sustained. The only time he drops lower is if he has to use TP or Mana song because other people can't manage their resources.

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Fine, I'm doint 11xx with NIN...just like 10%-15% more than You :)

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

Fine, I'm doint 11xx with NIN...just like 10%-15% more than You :)

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Let me see that parse for A4.

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Originally Posted by FreeLancer4

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Mobility is hardly a good reason for ranged to deal less damage because some of them (speicifcally BLM) can't afford to move as much anyway, not to mention GB/WM restricts movement anyway and its supposed to boost their dps. Their overall dps is relatively the same as it was in 2.0, except we also lose that so-called mobility advantage that some people like to bring up to justify their lower damage output.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

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All of these little buffs and debuffs that MCH and BRD have, outside of TP/MP regeneration, are icing on the cake. I don't think it can be stated enough, but TP/MP regen makes these two jobs the most valuable classes to have in a progression raid or even efficient farming. I mained melee all of 2.0 and when it came time to farm coils, if one of the PF groups had no BRD, my motivation was killed. I wanted to do my best and having that regen there is essential to putting out the best dps I possibly could. The same stands true now. One cannot last without MCH or BRD. They make everything better.

I think this can be objectively true: if you are not running out of TP as a TP user you are not maximizing your class's potential. This means you're dry at 4:00 to 4:30. Please bring based MCH/BRD, ty.

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Originally Posted by ArtificialxSky

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It only holds true if the bosses are a punching bag, such as turn 10 or turn 11. None of the content atm lasts long enough, or at least has enough pauses to necessitate a TP regen.