BRD/MCH look here

Maybe it's because I played blm but I'm not understanding the problem people had with having WM on and moving in fights. The cast time isn't even that long....hell fire 1 is longer than WM.

Though in fairness blm taught me how to clipcast like it's nothing so I only noticed a dps increase in WM and a loss without it.

I'm glad they buffed it though and made it stance :0

Please don't attack me ;-;

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Originally Posted by xXRaineXx

Um... sorry I actually cannot catch what you are trying to say...

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but are you saying that NIN got nerfed because of BRD and this is how they are returning the favor? Nerf=Core change?

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No what I'm saying is the reason they made it to where stacking classes made the limit gauge go slower is partly becasue of bard

Here is how the groups looked like in 2.0
BRD/BRD/BLM or SMN/Melee for dps and that's only for the limit break if Bard would of had the limit they have now wouldn't be surpised if it would of been all bards as the dps comp
double paladin tank
then healers.

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Originally Posted by Noira

Maybe it's because I played blm but I'm not understanding the problem people had with having WM on and moving in fights. The cast time isn't even that long....hell fire 1 is longer than WM.

Though in fairness blm taught me how to clipcast like it's nothing so I only noticed a dps increase in WM and a loss without it.

I'm glad they buffed it though and made it stance :0

Please don't attack me ;-;

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The reason I don't like it is because it changes the play style. I enjoyed bard because of the power of movement, and tossing out songs when need be. Even if it lowers my dps.

Now, I am a caster, who loses movement, and still toss out songs that lower my dps. I figure the trade off for songs was lower damage, but still the play style is around.


So a fun play style got changed for what? I don't understand what we gained from it.

Bard abilities were never nerfed, cross class buffs IR and B4B were nerfed for any class/job using them that were not main jobs.

On Bard before tonight, the only thing that made Wanderer's Minuet worthwhile was Iron Jaws, learned at L56. The 20% buff & Empyrial Arrow basically counteracted the loss of auto-attacks. Of course, you needed to be using Iron Jaws efficiently and keeping it going. Every time the DoTs fell off, or you had to move, things slipped back towards 2.0-mode.

The loss of 100 potency on Sidewinder is moot, because it's on a 60s recast. The loss of 20 potency on Empyrial Arrow is even less of a loss. The additional 10% buff is the big changer and is what will entrench the use of Wanderer's Minuet in endgame content.

As someone who really liked having the downtime-preventing mobility in exchange for lower dps, it's not the change I was looking for. Unless something ticks for me quite strongly soon, I'm dropping it.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I don't think it will be that bad. The problem is not the people who are playing the brd, but what the community thinks we offer them in groups. How often have you needed to use your support songs in group play? We will see how badly it will be needed in the new raid, but so far the mp is crazy high, and healers not been needing songs.

Point is that what we bring to groups is dps, and if we still can't do that well after the changes. We are going have a long drawn out wait.

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From what I understand, the healers are going to run out of MP just as much as in 2.X, or even faster since Piety is nerfed (according to what I've heard). We haven't gotten into raids yet, and that's where it will really be needed...

Also, unless you have 2 ninjas in you static, you will need TP regen. It's not like we last longer now... in fact, unless you're using TP regen on MNK(losing attack), all melee jobs runs out at the same time or faster than 2.X.

Some players have recently proven that at least MCH can do more DPS than what the majority of players say. Some of the numbers from Ravana EX is pretty good.

MCH and BRD are utility DPS jobs, and you don't really go into raids without one. You don't need the utility that other DPS jobs brings, it just helps you, but in most cases, you need a MCH/BRD... That's the difference, and that's why they have lower DPS.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Well good thing I don't need to hold yours also right? Because what the devs feel the class is, and how they design it means more than you living in your own world and label a class what it is not.

Get over it. You have nothing to back your statement of bards being a support class. You have no grounds to stand on. Time for you to understand that you are a dps class, and should care about what dps you do.

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You do know that BRD's used to top dps charts at launch and the DEVS were just like nope.avi, BRD's are a support class, NERF.avi;

Oh wait you don't.

Edit;
You should really stop talking if you know what's good for you.

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Originally Posted by Noira

Maybe it's because I played blm but I'm not understanding the problem people had with having WM on and moving in fights. The cast time isn't even that long....hell fire 1 is longer than WM.

Though in fairness blm taught me how to clipcast like it's nothing so I only noticed a dps increase in WM and a loss without it.

I'm glad they buffed it though and made it stance :0

Please don't attack me ;-;

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Having to stand still to use abilities in the same fashion as blm is not the problem most people have, its the fact that a lot of people picked the job for its playstyle. A playstyle in which most of its abilities were instant cast. To suddenly have this turned around to be completely opposite is what many people take issue with.

Imagine playing a dragoon for 2 years and then suddenly having cast timers added to all your abilities. I could almost guarantee that most people would also have an issue with that.

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Originally Posted by Panasync

That's true, but if you look at the changes he seems to have addressed what he posted about (except tWP).

1. The clunkiness of WM/GB [Made them insta-cast with a CD instead of channeled]
2. There was no clear advantage to be in WM/GB did comparable damage outside of stance [Doesn't look like they actually increased our damage they juggled the numbers around a bit so it's a punishment to not be in the stance]

It's possible that the changes will add to DPS, but at least from what it looks like, that wasn't their intention. Looks like it is basically nerfing the numbers on abilities but buffing the stance slightly to get us where we were before but needing to utilize the stance to do so (unlike prior where you could get close to stance numbers outside of the stance).

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

In addition to making adjustments so that the effect of this ability is fitting right after you learn it, we will be making it easier to switch into and out of Wanderer's Minuet and eliminating the current aspects that make it difficult to use. At the same time we will be paying close attention to the balance of each skill so the damage output at level 60 does not largely increase.

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I think its pretty clear he wanted DMG to go up a little bit. It seems they wanted us to use GB/WM more. If they didn't nerf our damage a bit, with the 30% damage (which is a permanent b4b added to it) our damage would creep onto casters DPS, and we do not want or need that. Class balance!

Bards are not meant to be support class. Up until Machinists, they're the only ranged melee, with mostly support for casters with Mage Ballad. I never found Army's Peon to be as useful for melee vs. Mage Ballad for healers.

When I got the new abilities (WM, EA, SW), I was happy that they looked like they're somewhat catching up to in DPS. Granted, Bards won't be cannons like BLM or do as much/fast DPS as melee. But now I think Square just pretty much kicked the class to the curb with this stupid nerf. The biggest being the 2 dots and Sidewinder. No matter what the 10% increase does, the nerf to the dots (if I calculate it from the original numbers) is 30%; that 10% increase from WM isn't going to compensate that loss. And Sidewinder with at 28.6% DPS loss; also keep in mind the CD for Sidewinder is 1 minute. It's not a skill with a 30-45 second CD.

I don't know what SE is doing but this nerf is just STUPID and they're starting to remind me of Blizzard...this is just BS.