memorial service for MCH

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

What we got is quite a bit different. No powerful abilities locked behind ammo, no real resource management, and only actual barrel that doesn't cost more resources, just roots you in place for no real gain. Makes me wonder what happened between then and now that gave us an RNG slot machine.

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Ugh, ammo as far as I can tell is poorly-implemented. It can't even be called a resource since it's basically a stacking buff and nothing more.

I'll admit, it's kind of hard to implement ammo as a resource.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Ugh, ammo as far as I can tell is poorly-implemented. It can't even be called a resource since it's basically a stacking buff and nothing more.

I'll admit, it's kind of hard to implement ammo as a resource.

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I mentioned NIN's MUNDRAs RE: that. People doubted they could do anything new with MELEE DPS before it debuted. I guess you don't get Lightning in a bottle twice.

Since NINJAs cast NINJITSU by performing MUNDRAs, I had hoped RELOADs would have had a similar *unique* mechanic like that. I know this is pretty out in left field. But the class plays exactly how they marketed it wouldn't. "Just spamming abilities.." That's exactly what you do. Except you watch for COOLDOWNS. Every class has that.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Ugh, ammo as far as I can tell is poorly-implemented. It can't even be called a resource since it's basically a stacking buff and nothing more.

I'll admit, it's kind of hard to implement ammo as a resource.

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It wouldn't be that hard, I think. Let's say you remove the RNG on our 1,2,3 combo and ammo is no longer used for these. Instead, you lower the potency and cooldown of Gauss Round and make it cost 1 ammo. Ricochet costs 3, but has a longer cooldown than Gauss. Then you add in another ability that costs 2 ammo, perhaps wth a cooldown somewhere in between the Gauss Round and Ricochet. You'd use your stack of ammo to use those abilities and would have to manage it so you can use Ricochet every time it's off cooldown, but rely on Gauss round or the other ability when it's not, managing your Reload and Quick Reload to give you optimum damage potential, possibly even hold rounds in the chamber while you wait for stronger abilities to come off cooldown. Perhaps they can even combo with each other or they provide a buff or debuff you need to keep up. For example, you could extend Hot Shot's duration to one minute and make it cost 2 ammo. Then take Dismantle/Rend Mind and put them into one ability (call it Double Tap or something) and make it cost ammo. Then during the fight you'll be in situations where you may have to choose-- keep up your damage buff? Save the tank with the damage reduction? Or just hit them with a Ricochet? That's resource management right there.

Obviously, my example would need a lot of tweaking to actually get right, but it's better than what we have right now, which is basically a band-aid to fix the RNG and give our main combo a minor boost and it's closer to what we were previewed than what we have now.

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Originally Posted by RedHare

I mentioned NIN's MUNDRAs RE: that. People doubted they could do anything new with MELEE DPS before it debuted. I guess you don't get Lightning in a bottle twice.

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For what its worth, Mudras are sort of an extension of the concept of combo points.

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I had hoped RELOADs would have had a similar *unique* mechanic like that. I know this is pretty out in left field.

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Well, depends on what you want from the class. If you want resource management, then make ammo slowly regen with a cap on ammo you can have in stock, have abilities either modify the rate at which ammo replenishes or work the way Reload currently does. Have one or two weak attacks that consume no ammo and the bulk of your abilities consume ammo in some way. This way your gameplay would involve pacing yourself in combat, thinking ahead in terms of when you'll have enough ammo for an ability, with Reload being a "get out of jail free" card in the even you find yourself starved for ammo and need to hit hard at that very moment. Of course, balancing DPS between this AND your turrets would be difficult.

Alternatively, you could keep the system similar to what MCH has now, but allow ammo to be selectively used. This would require changing ammo into something that alters the properties of your shots, while also reducing the number of shots that can work in conjunction with ammo (get rid of the 20 potency thing, too).

I can do about 720-740 dps on a dummy right now(at um 3 or 4 minutes), and do about 450 in bismark ex, according to some friends who have parsed me. I have the un-upgraded i170 law gun, law body/pants/belt, and 2 law accessories. I agree that this job does not feel like it has some skill involved to resource management, it's just bard 2.0 on steroids in the fact that we must simply have perfect timing on aligning CD's and use them extremely wisely. Reload and Quick reload are just another CD, they have no additional skill or difficulty to them than any other CD. We basically got a job that is almost nothing like what was described to us. What gives, Yoshi-P?

Ammo is really disappointing, it sounded like almost all skills had an added effect with it but all it is is a proc on the first two and a waste on everything else.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

For what its worth, Mudras are sort of an extension of the concept of combo points.

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Sure. Underneath every building is brick. The classes in XIV, esp. NINJA, do have their own unique meta though. As a subscription based game, that's the value-add (imho). Real variety in the classes, not just different coats of paint.

*Except* for ranged PHYS RANGED DPS. Which is why I think they ought to go back to the drawing board.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I did discover that our 1-2-3 is NOT a linear combo, as I'm sure many already knew. If you're willing to sacrifice the damage that could be done, you can easily use Slug Shot and proc Clean, go BACK and use Split, proc Slug, use your proc-Clean, use your proc-Slug, and still potentially get ANOTHER proc Clean Shot. Without Ammo. In a nutshell: 2 (proc 3), 1 (proc 2), 3, 2 (possibly proc 3 again), 3. And you could possibly do that infinitely.

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This post is really good, never thought to change my rotation always just followed the 1-2-3 pattern waiting for procs. DPSing this way i gained about 200 dps, a huge increase to what i was doing, and im in full 180 gear and after doing countless Bismark EX runs and failing because of lack of dps, i felt like giving up. now im gonna try this new style and see if it helps down the darn whale.

While I can understand stacking procs, I don't see how going 2-1-3 would give a dps increase, especially 200 like you claim. Taking into account increased action damage, split shot is equal to 168 potency. Slug shot, without a proc, is equal to only 120, but 216 when it procs. Clean shot is equal to 240. If you use Slug Shot without a proc followed by a procced Clean Shot, that's 360 potency. If you use Split Shot followed by priced Slug Shot, that's 384 potency. Any way you look at it, you lose damage. The best way to stack would be Sply Shot (proc Slug Shot)> Slug Shot (proc Clean Shot)> Split Shot (proc Slug Shot again).

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Originally Posted by Osakachan

This post is really good, never thought to change my rotation always just followed the 1-2-3 pattern waiting for procs. DPSing this way i gained about 200 dps, a huge increase to what i was doing, and im in full 180 gear and after doing countless Bismark EX runs and failing because of lack of dps, i felt like giving up. now im gonna try this new style and see if it helps down the darn whale.

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I dont know if this is serious or sarcasm