When is it OK to say, "It's Not OK"

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

You failed at networking with competent players.

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This right here. I belong to a small free company. We aren't a big raiding guild or anything but a couple of us has beaten Turn 9 in separate statics. We regularly run and beat Turn 5 for people that need it.

Turn 5 is also something most people were stuck on for months if not longer. There's a lot to learn about the fight. You don't go in and one shot it or look up a video and suddenly you're an expert at the fight. It takes time and effort to get it down. It's very easy once you get it down but it takes time to reach that level.

As far as I'm concerned if it's party finder you can put your expectations in the description and people joining should meet them. If it says it's a training run people need to get over wipes. It was advertised ahead of time that was going to happen. If it's a clear group people should come with the expectation to know most of the fight but they just need that win and that some wipes will happen. If it's a farm group you should have your clear and know what you're doing. Wipes should be minimal and easily avoided. It's when a new player joins a clear group, or a farmer joins a learning group that we run into problems. People should only join groups that match their play level and expectations, and if one doesn't exist they should make one and get some friends to help fill the party a bit. People are hesitant to join empty party finders so getting a few friends helps in a big way.

If it's Duty Finder though everyone needs to shut up and suck it up. It's a hodge podge grab bag and no one should have any expectations at all.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

@Remilla, how can you practice if people keep kicking you if you fail because you miss experience that you cant acquire since nobody let you acquire it since for those you are just a jerk stupid idiot that cant learn, learning that you cant do since you can never practice up to the end???

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Make your own party. Explicitly say there will be wipes because this is a learning party. Then kick the players who don't respect that.

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Originally Posted by Schizm

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It's ok to say it's not ok any time I feel like it.

I play the game for fun and when it becomes a chore then it's time to call it quits. Even though it's sound egotistical; my concern is not if I am going to upset someone. My concern is if I am enjoying me self.

I try to help to and extent and most of the time if they log onto voip I will walk them through it and even give live instructions during the fight but, if the person is not adapting / improving. I just make up some bs excuse and drop the party and move to my own channel.

So to sum it up. I do not play the game for others entertainment I play for my own entertainment and under no circumstances am I more concerned about them being upset if I do what is best for my game play. It's best that I leave when I have had enough before I start ripping into people so its best that I leave.

@Tiggy

Yes I tried many , after 3h without anybody other then a couple, I gave up, trie dagain same story, once it went through but for the healer there we were not good enough and he left and left us with no option then abandon. I cant wait 3h everytime as that is basically the time I have at disposition to play....you all think is easy to do anything but it is not that obvious for all of us....some, and I am sure I am not the only one, are stuck because of RL limitations ..neither of us should be demeaned for something that we dont know, cant do it right right away or make mistakes because we still learn, people are plain rude becasue they hide behind a pixel and feel powerful...face to face most of them wouldnt even dare to speak, funny uh?

Your comment is in no way helping, it just puts up more limitations....kind of weird uh?

Now as the last poster before me said, if you are not happy by all means just leave, but no way should you demean anyone for any reasons...you dont like it ? you are finding it hard ? just leave...you are not enjoying ? leave...THAT is the adult way of going about....the one that is not enjoying should go not the other way around

Mei

MeiUshu, this IS how you get parties and get this stuff done. So it is the right advice, to completely tell me that I'm in no way helping is a bit stand offish don't you think? We could have a discussion about how to make that work better, but instead you just put me down as not helping. Maybe you need to open your mind a bit more.

If I were to have a conversation with you about it without you just outright assuming I'm being unhelpful I might say to you that you should grab a few friends before making the party. Put it up on PF with 2-3 or more of your friends. People are less inclined to help when it's 1 person out of 8 sitting in PF. When the group is already half formed they are bit more willing to hop in, or you could alternatively make friends that can fill a party with you. Do you not have 7 friends that could help? If you do at least some of them must have the win by now and should be able to help. Are you really using your social network to it's fullest?

See how hard that would have been to not be negative at me and instead have a real conversation? Not very hard at all. Your post is a great example of how advice can be given to someone but it's then thrown back in their face regardless if it's the correct answer or not. Instead of putting me down ask how you could improve your odds. Further the conversation. Don't just bar-none throw it back at me. It makes me wonder why you haven't beaten T5 yet, and if this is the attitude you bring to advice threads then I have to wonder what you bring to a party when someone tries to give you advice.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

I'm part of an RP FC right now because they actually treat me like an equal instead of a roadie. I have an obligation to the people who have treated me like a human being so I can't leave.

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Then begin an LS in the attempt to find like minded individuals to help you clear your content. Several people from several different servers have indicated success in doing so, and you can do so yourself. You don't need to have your FC to be part of a raid capable team, it's just the most convenient approach to raiding.

The most important thing is not to give up. There are a strong pool of players capable of doing it, it's just a matter of finding those capable players and applying the glue to keep them around. This is not easy, by any stretch of the imagination. As a static leader myself, I can understand and appreciate the plight of this.

Again, the best advice is never give up. You will run into good and bad players, start small. Getting the first two - three people online will be the toughest. Once people see learning parties set up that are already half filled, they'll be more inclined to join these parties. This is especially true if your "core" group consists of a tank (two would be great!) and a healer, as the most difficult roles to fill have already been filled. Since you yourself are a tank already, you've already beaten one of those steps. Find another tank and a healer friend who's interested, and go from there.

Good luck~

[EDIT] You don't even need to have an LS, just as long as you can keep an open communication with the other individuals of your group. While six of my current static are in the same FC, I am sure to get in touch with everyone on an individual basis via /tell, Skype, Mog Mail, etc.. and ensure everyone is on the same page for the time frame designated. No LS needed, just keep an eye on your FL. You can do similar. [/EDIT]

See, I'm a new player. I've only been in game about 2 months. I have worked hard to try and get up to speed. I haven't cleared T5 but I have tired it a several times in DF and its already to the point where when I go in and there are new people I ask if they at least watched a video. More often than not they say no. These are, compairitively, hard core raids. Why would you step into that with no knowledge what so ever? Thats just plain lazy, I would never step into content like that when its so easy to at least find a video to watch. They are wasting their time, and the time of 7 other people because they can't be bothered to watch a 10 minute video?

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

See how hard that would have been to not be negative at me and instead have a real conversation? Not very hard at all. Your post is a great example of how advice can be given to someone but it's then thrown back in their face regardless if it's the correct answer or not. Instead of putting me down ask how you could improve your odds. Further the conversation. Don't just bar-none throw it back at me. It makes me wonder why you haven't beaten T5 yet, and if this is the attitude you bring to advice threads then I have to wonder what you bring to a party when someone tries to give you advice
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This happens a lot. People think you are "talking down" to them when you are basically telling them something they don't want to hear or have heard before but haven't acted on. Im not saying thats true in all cases but it is most of the time.

All of the suggestions you made were completely constructive and actually work when enacted. I myself have done them to great affect. Im not a hardcore raider or in a static. All of my clears have come from PF, DF (most), and Getting help from FC. The third one is something I feel like a lot of people don't do enough of. You need to get yourself into a good FC that clears content.

People are going to tell me that "I'm being loyal to my friends, I can't leave" or "You treat people like a commodity to be used and abused, how dare you!". My response is, good for you if thats what you think. You need to prioritize your goals. If clearing T5 is more important than keeping friends, then you need to move on OR create an LS or something that keeps in touch with friends or that includes people u want to clear with.

The options are there, the suggestions have been made. The only thing left to do is to execute them.

Don't forget the fault that lies on SE. Who the hell leaves one shot mechanics in two tier old content and still requires a clear? The echo buff is not the only "nerf" those encounters need. IMO, one shots should be taken out of old content completely, but if they want to leave them in, then only the prievious tier (6-9) should keep it. Two tiers back (1-5) should definitely not have them. It's dead content to anyone who cleared when it was current.

Inb4 "Lol, I don't want those baddies in my raids and I had to do it pre-nerf." If they weren't in your groups while the last tier was current, they won't be in this tier, either. Leave them alone and let them have old content. It doesn't hurt anyone's prestige who cleared it when it was current.

Also, inb4 "no, I want my content to be hard whenever I get to it!" Then clear it while it's current. I get it, time constraints suck, but don't selfishly cry to bar everyone else for months just because of your unfortunate game time.

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Originally Posted by Priya

Who the hell leaves one shot mechanics in two tier old content and still requires a clear?

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People who know that all the content that follows is harder and that removing those mechanics wouldn't really anyone in a meaningful way. You'd only be removing a learning tool to help people practice simple mechanics in preparation for the crazier ones to come. Just because it's old does not mean it has no purpose. If you can't do the simple mechanics in T5 you are in for a world of hurt in the second coil, and instead of T5 needs nerfed threads we'll instead be having the same conversation about the "old content" of T6 and T7. It doesn't really change anything but the context of the conversation. People who struggle with T5 will continue to struggle with T6 and beyond.