DPS Tool

Let's just make the DPS tool personal. I want to see my personal dps, i don't need others to know about it or know theirs. Then, people will be able to shout their number if they want or not.
Improving dps is not only about rotation, it's also how you react and use your time to dps in encounters (my main dps is BLM). Giving numbers only on dummies woudn't help me that much.

People really need to take a step back and decide what "elitist" means since it has become such a loaded term.
To most it means people that spend time theorycrafting, look for the absolutely the best rotation, and min-max everything. Most likely in a top end progression FC.
For some it seems to mean anyone who actually cares about how well they do their job.

If elitist means feeling that i shouldn't be carried though content and caring about how my DPS stacks up against par for the job I am playing then I guess I am guilty as charged.
BUT the truth is that I am not an elitist. I have played other MMOs where that name (the positive side of the term not the negative side) would apply to me so I definitely know the difference.
Regardless of how you play the game you should care about whether you play your job well or not.

You look at a tank and if he doesn't have the HPs or can't keep agro he isn't doing his job (even though if we could do a DPS check it may be because the DPS is just awesome and he can't keep hate).
You look at a healer and if people are dieing, they are dieing, detrimentals aren't being cleansed, or they are running out of MP then they aren't doing their job.
But god forbid if I ever mention in party chat that mobs seem to be taking a long time to die. HOW DARE I.
If the healer couldn't heal a group they would be kicked and that is without any quantitative evidence that shows they aren't performing as opposed to other people causing the problem.
If a dps gets kicked because of a DPS meter at least there is evidence to support the reason and not a gut feeling.

Parsers are a great tool for improvement but people are hung up on the one time in a hundred it is going to be used negatively.
If I am playing a DPS class and we are failing because of DPS problem I want to know if I'm the cause.

This has nothing to do with dps-meters. This has to do with peoples decency.

If we were to restrict everything because people are the ones abusing it, well... You can figure this one out yourselves.

Im from Europe myself. It's the "Western" servers where people like to go all elite on others. Just like it's our servers (EU/US) where there is massive RMT spam (because there is a market). It's a cultural thing. And no, I can't move to a JP server. Have done it up to lvl 38, lag is just too much.

I think SE just needs to implement it and punish people hard when they use it for the wrong reasons. On the other hand, telling someone "your dps is on the lower end" is something people should be able to take. Plenty of us to go over rotations.

so basically. the "elitist" just want to win things with people that can properly play their class and not deal with wipes after wipes. so when the "elitist" as for such a thing in pf and basically see that you are not up to par the "elitist" get burned at the stake.

....crazy.

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Originally Posted by rockso

so basically. the "elitist" just want to win things with people that can properly play their class and not deal with wipes after wipes. so when the "elitist" as for such a thing in pf and basically see that you are not up to par the "elitist" get burned at the stake.

....crazy.

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Exactly.
Where "elitist" would be considered an average or above quality player.
But I forgot we live in the age of participation medals and not caring if you perform well doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Nabician

Let's just make the DPS tool personal. I want to see my personal dps, i don't need others to know about it or know theirs. Then, people will be able to shout their number if they want or not.
Improving dps is not only about rotation, it's also how you react and use your time to dps in encounters (my main dps is BLM). Giving numbers only on dummies woudn't help me that much.

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This is really the best option I'd think.

Yes, a DPS tool can be great for improving your own performance, but that's the only purpose it needs. So long as things are dieing, and your group is clearing the content, team member DPS amounts are not relevant to the overall team. Groups can choose to share the info amongst themselves, especially simple in the case of pre-made groups, but PuG's are choosing to go into places with random groups. Take what you get. Among randoms, a dps comparison only feeds the drama.

PC gamers already have access to tools such as the FFXIV app; however, PS3/4 gamers have nothing.

So this kind of tool is already available to a large portion of the community. If anything, SE making an official tool like this in-game would be leveling the playing field as far as this is concerned.

Not sure it is good or not if they add combat result (same as the one after each PvP match) after each content.

But better performance will result faster fight (speed run) so maybe some players will blame this idea?

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Yes I don't use parsers because I don't care for them. Parsers aren't gonna let the group know that I used virus or lethargy on the boss, eye for an eye or apocatastasis on a group member, that I avoided some mechanics with manawall, manaward, aetherial manipulation. That I'm off healing because the tank is low and the healer has died and we can drag it out and still down the fight. As well as the fact that everyone's dead and instead of allowing myself to die at 2% I kite and scathe and finish it off. Parsers don't take these kind of situational occurrences into consideration. Parsers are primarily used so people can know their MAX DPS Numbers.

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That's not true though - parsers can tell you all of the above.

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There's a difference of letting a person know that implementing an ability in their rotation would allow them to do more damage over "omg wtf is your problem noob? Don't you know how to DPS? Play something else or uninstall".

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You're presenting a worst case scenario as an argument against far more common average scenarios.

I really think this is being discussed to levels that aren't really realistic.

Is SE going to create/allow a DPS measuring tool of some kind?: Probably not. Why? Just look at these forums, so much verbal abuse. They are smart to limit what is allowed in this way. Each game has a demographic, and apparently ours for this game is a bit abusive.

Are DPS tools in general a bad thing in other games like WoW, Rift, etc?: If other developers allow them in their own games, it's totally up to them and it's not a bad choice. It can be a useful thing to have in those games.

To me, this is basically the right to bare arms debate. Are guns dangerous? Yes, they are. Do guns kill people? People kill people, guns just make it easier. If used appropriately, guns can enforce order (ex. Police, Army). I think these forums prove we probably would use such a tool inappropriately. Until such a time that we would use a DPS tool properly, I doubt SE will budge on this issue.

Ultimately though, it's those people that would use a DPS tool for abuse towards others that are preventing SE from allowing us from having one for legitimate use.