ARR often feels very contradictory in its design (long)

You know I think part of the problem is that because crafting gear is something easier to potentially get, there is this idea that dungeon gear must be better to account for skill.. But they almost had something with the crafting philo mat system that could have overcome this... Except that they allowed the crafted mats to be sold, and worse, required more crafting items then it takes to get DL itself. One crafted ring requires 9 peacock ore = 9*125 = 12 runs of WP. One DL ring costs 375 = 4 runs of WP. Then if you want the best stats you have to get materia, which means SB high level gear, meaning it takes even more. In the end it frankly makes little sense to get all crafted gear by the time you have the gil to buy, or the mats to make, you already have full DL and some myth anyway. For i70 can crafted gear be the best? Yes. But by the time you have it the best you probably already have some percentage of i90 gear to replace it, Certainly I got my myth robe before I was able to put materia on my Vanya. And I never got anything but the robe because it was so fast to get DL and then drops.

If they really want best in class gear to be hard to attain, including proof of hard content, they should make best in slot (three star maybe?) crafter gear more like relics, where you do hard content to get items needed for your own weapon, something that cannot be sold. Then you could request a crafter to make a crafted item with your mats, for you. In which case crafter gear could be better than dungeon drops, because it would require all the mats to be fetched by you for you. If they did this consistently, you could have dungeon drop which was RNG, or run hard content that dropped those items multiple times to get crafter gear. This would be something that couldn't go through the market board, but would have to be face to face, or self-crafted. This honestly would be a better path than the current myth path, because it would require crafting services, without allowing for people to get gear without doing content. If also done through materia and HQ vs NQ, it would allow all aspects to be fleshed out.

Anyway this is just some random thoughts I have on the subject. Overall I agree with the OP. The dungeon/myth/philo gear being better than crafting is a broken inconsistent aspect of the game.

Maybe vanity will help. But I currently don't hold much hope for it. It certainly won't save the materia system, which currently only has value for crafting.. Which only has value for CUL. As I currently see it the entire crafting system only exists to support crafter/gather gear so CUL can make HQ food.

All of which is very sad. Because I love the crafting system, but why make something that has no purpose to someone?

Sorry for the rambling incoherence, I don't have time to fully make sense of my thoughts on the subject.....

Very well written post here OP. I already canceled my subscription renewal, and basically just log in to give away stuff and say my goodbyes to folks. The direction that the developers seem to want to take this game is make it Dungeon/Gear progression heavy, with every other game activity such as crafting becoming a secondary hobbie that actually have little to no significance to the end game scene. I find it odd that Yoshida said that Dark age of Camelot had the biggest influence on him as an mmo player, yet he chose a development route that seems to contradict philosophies of DoaC design. This game was intentionally geared to cater to the LCD of gamers, as SE did not want to risk a financial meltdown should they have a second failed launch.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

By the way, does anyone have any thorough ideas on how they might like to see crafting better integrated into the other aspects of the game?

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It's very simple: There should be three ways to collect whatever the current max ilvl gear is (currently ilvl 90 outside of mainhand); Tokens, RNG drops, and crafting. The rare materials for the crafted gear should NOT come from the same sources as the tokens and treasure drops, as it defeats the purpose of crafting said gear if you are doing the dungeon that drops equivalent gear for "free." I believe some sort of FATE/Levequest/supply system designed for only crafters/gathers to participate in that rewards high level crafting material would be more inline with making crafting and gathering relevant.

Since they've already thrown in Token materials (which I hope they don't do again), I suggest that all two-star crafted gear get bumped up 10 levels. Currently, ilvl70 armor is actually ilvl55-ish stat-wise, with the HQ being the proper ilvl70, this extremely misleading. I suggest a change to ilvl70 with the HQ being ilvl80. HQ gear should also be listed as a higher ilvl. The two-star gear takes far more time and effort to craft than simply buying ilvl70 darklight outright; to be only slightly better once you spend hundreds of thousands on materia (and outclassed once you get ilvl90 gear outside of extremely overmelded accessories) is pure nonsense.

Finally, every piece of equipment should have (removable) materia slots and be dye-able. I honestly can't fathom why they bothered to carry over materia and add the awesome dye system (and even implement a dozen new dyes in 2.1!) only to limit it to high-level crafting and gathering gear (the latter being nearly pointless to materia regardless). Materia should also increase ilvl (as far as I know, it currently doesn't).

tl;dr Make crafting the third way to obtain max ilvl gear, along with the current token and raid system, and keep the materials out of said token and raid systems. Not only would these changes make crafting relevant, they would make the armory system itself more relevant by adding another way to gear multiple classes.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

That is only possible in a group. And leeching off the contribution of your party is not cool. You can also go auto-attack in CT and get loot for it... doesn't means you should do it.

As for "whacking something for 3 minutes", I still don't see how that's worse than having someone exp-tap mobs or talking to NPCs and getting levels for it.

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Again you fail to see the point. They could have done so much better with fates instead of having them be a zerg fest. Bring the environment into play in this beautiful world they have.

Example - fate pops, giant marlboro, only way to get the killing blow is to have a giant bolder fall on the marlboro, it would require timing and multiple targets. You'd have to fight the marlboro down to a sliver of health, then attack the rock that is hanging on an over hang, drag the marlboro over to the rock and let it fall on him. You miss with the rock, you have to start over. You keep attacking the marlboro and drop it to 0% health, he does "death breath" and everyone dies. This is just an example i came up with in 30 seconds that has more depth than the current fates we have. Before you pick it apart as to why it wouldn't work please read the part again where I said i thought of it in 30 seconds as an example.

The issue I have with fates is they are too easy. It's an instant win. Behem and Odin are cool, but the only hard part about them is being able to see the mob. (which I hear they have fixed but I honestly haven't bothered with these two fates since the first week since I am not fate spamming in those zones)

TLDR - Add some difficulty to fates instead of easy mode zerg fests.

PS - SE if you use this fate please name it "To Squish a Marlboro."

A well-stated, excellent OP. I agree: SE created these marvelous systems (multiple classes per character, crafting/gathering, materia, and a beautiful open world), and then "kneecaps" each one of them in some way.

Hopefully the devs can see that they're working against their best designs and revitalize this content in future patches.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

The game hasn't fully fleshed out, we barely have half of the total jobs meant for the game. Give it some time, sheesh.

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"Give It Time."

1st thing I see someone say all the time lol They have had time and people told them what we would like and yet they pump out stuff we don't want. Yep, keep waiting.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

As long as the company does not see a drop in subscriptions, they will continue to ship content as if it has the communities full backing. No one would change direction on a project if your base is still handing you money to keep doing what you're done.

As for SE needing money to fund new content.. They should take all of that out of pocket rather expect to take it completely out of revenue; Especially with how they're making decisions lately.

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That's completely untrue. It would be true if Yoshi & Co. were completely oblivious to our wants and needs, but they DO read these forums. I do admit that we are just playing catch-up because patch 2.1 is just an extension of the release, and now they're taking their time with the PS4 version, but I know that they know what we want.

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Originally Posted by CHunterX

It's very simple: There should be three ways to collect whatever the current max ilvl gear is (currently ilvl 90 outside of mainhand); Tokens, RNG drops, and crafting. The rare materials for the crafted gear should NOT come from the same sources as the tokens and treasure drops, as it defeats the purpose of crafting said gear if you are doing the dungeon that drops equivalent gear for "free." I believe some sort of FATE/Levequest/supply system designed for only crafters/gathers to participate in that rewards high level crafting material would be more inline with making crafting and gathering relevant.


Since they've already thrown in Token materials (which I hope they don't do again), I suggest that all two-star crafted gear get bumped up 10 levels. Currently, ilvl70 armor is actually ilvl55-ish stat-wise, with the HQ being the proper ilvl70, this extremely misleading. I suggest a change to ilvl70 with the HQ being ilvl80. HQ gear should also be listed as a higher ilvl. The two-star gear takes far more time and effort to craft than simply buying ilvl70 darklight outright; to be only slightly better once you spend hundreds of thousands on materia (and outclassed once you get ilvl90 gear outside of extremely overmelded accessories) is pure nonsense.

Finally, every piece of equipment should have (removable) materia slots and be dye-able. I honestly can't fathom why they bothered to carry over materia and add the awesome dye system (and even implement a dozen new dyes in 2.1!) only to limit it to high-level crafting and gathering gear (the latter being nearly pointless to materia regardless). Materia should also increase ilvl (as far as I know, it currently doesn't).

tl;dr Make crafting the third way to obtain max ilvl gear, along with the current token and raid system, and keep the materials out of said token and raid systems. Not only would these changes make crafting relevant, they would make the armory system itself more relevant by adding another way to gear multiple classes.

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Someone give this guy a medal.

Crafting should allow the creation of high level gear. I DO NOT, however, agree that the absolute maximum level gear should be available from crafting. Crafted gears should be one tier lower than the currently available highest tier.

This is because the gears should complement gameplay experience, not the other way around. You don't want people to faceroll new contents because they can overgear themselves relatively easily.

Crafted gears should be that stepping stone from your current gear to the next best one

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Originally Posted by KyoKunChan

"Give It Time."

1st thing I see someone say all the time lol They have had time and people told them what we would like and yet they pump out stuff we don't want. Yep, keep waiting.

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There is one common thing I have seen with every single game that does it wrong.
Closed beta: "Give it time."
Open beta: "Just give it time."
Release: "Give it some time."
First bug patch: "Give it some more time."
First major content patch: "Need to give it time."

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Originally Posted by KyoKunChan

"Give It Time."

1st thing I see someone say all the time lol They have had time and people told them what we would like and yet they pump out stuff we don't want. Yep, keep waiting.

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What came from 2.1 that we, as a community, DIDN'T want? It may not have been the most optimal content for the 1% of people in full i90, but I wouldn't say there was no content that we didn't want.