Dear SE: We do not care if FFXIV is a MMO. We want it to be a Final Fantasy.

-quote cairdeas' post here-

The one thing which I've noticed that runs through all FF's is Crystals. I made a huge post about it somewhere (will take me ages to find, it's buried forever in tens of pages of threads), but all Final Fantasy's have had some kind of Crystal motif, or at least a presence of them to obtain treasure/spells, as a plot device, or a tool to summon or cast magic, or just as a save tool. Fromm FFI to FFXIV, Crystals have appeared in many forms and appearances, but are still there.

So if you want the very basics of the game to be back...well, we already have our shards and crystals, some used in storyline plots. :D

I agree with having classic battle menus. They obviously don't have to have those old-fashioned "mickey mouse hands," as someone else so gallantly mentioned before, they would probably look new and fancy. But, I would like to see an implementation of menus.

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Originally Posted by toshimoog

I agree with having classic battle menus. They obviously don't have to have those old-fashioned "mickey mouse hands," as someone else so gallantly mentioned before, they would probably look new and fancy. But, I would like to see an implementation of menus.

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Someone explain to me what this means exactly please? the best I can see them giving us are skins for what we already have, you don't just "implement" a menu if it has no use, so maybe with the menus we already have they can give us optional skins but how do they implement a menu that looks like the old games exactly and for what reason, in case I'm not understanding this correctly?

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Originally Posted by Mack

Someone explain to me what this means exactly please? the best I can see them giving us are skins for what we already have, you don't just "implement" a menu if it has no use, so maybe with the menus we already have they can give us optional skins but how do they implement a menu that looks like the old games exactly and for what reason, in case I'm not understanding this correctly?

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I'm talking about the Battle UI. Instead of having action bars like WoW and Guild Wars, let us use menus to battle, like in every other Final Fantasy game in the series.

Attack (probably would end up being auto-attack or not be in the list)
Magic
Other Skills
Items

And then have those options open up the list of skills we have or whatever. I would be excited if they put this in.

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Originally Posted by toshimoog

I'm talking about the Battle UI. Instead of having action bars like WoW and Guild Wars, let us use menus to battle, like in every other Final Fantasy game in the series.

Attack (probably would end up being auto-attack or not be in the list)
Magic
Other Skills
Items

And then have those options open up the list of skills we have or whatever. I would be excited if they put this in.

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I don't think this idea would work for the simple case that this game requires you (or will require you), especially in party play, to be on top of your game and acting quickly. FFXI had menus, nobody used them at all, everyone and EVERYONE resorted to macros. This is a great idea from a nostalgic standpoint, I agree, but from a practical standpoint no way this is good. I find the ability bar more convenient as it kind of alleviates the use of macros and its straight to the point.

In FFXII for example, which used the menu approach, it had everything buried inside different categories so half the time you would completely stick to something convenient...however in FFXII you had the convenince of playing solo and you had robots alongside you who did thier job pretty well because they were quick and efficient (if you gambit'ed them properly).

What most seem to be too short-sighted to see is that FF tradition, is innovation. What we mean by we want classic FF is not we want copy/paste features. We want features that are based on the tried, the true, and the loved. And then expounded upon.

The two points I glean from this thread are 1. Give XIV individuality by making it more like a FF and 2. How would you (the reader) do that." Stop bashing just cause you disagree and state benefits for your point of view so the conversation doesn't go around in circles and all eleventy-six pages of it all look the freakin same.

Edit* Oh yes and my contribution would be more dynamic storytelling. In a lot of FFXIs missions you were kinda dealing under the table and learning all sides of the story as you progressed so you weren't naive or biased and it added a lot of depth. In short: Ergodic story telling.

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Originally Posted by Mack

I don't think this idea would work for the simple case that this game requires you (or will require you), especially in party play, to be on top of your game and acting quickly. FFXI had menus, nobody used them at all, everyone and EVERYONE resorted to macros. This is a great idea from a nostalgic standpoint, I agree, but from a practical standpoint no way this is good. I find the ability bar more convenient as it kind of alleviates the use of macros and its straight to the point.

In FFXII for example, which used the menu approach, it had everything buried inside different categories so half the time you would completely stick to something convenient...however in FFXII you had the convenince of playing solo and you had robots alongside you who did thier job pretty well because they were quick and efficient (if you gambit'ed them properly).

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I guess that's true, but I just wish the action bar system wasn't so limiting. Setting skills to the action bars with AP costs, especially on CON gets kind of annoying because the game limits us on our own spells and what we are allowed to use at any one time.

I agree that the action bars are pretty much the same setup as the macro bar from FFXI. That makes sense. I think the main problem is that this is a controller-based game. I was just thinking it would be easier just to make a chart of all your spells to where you can see them all at once without having to scroll through 3 different rows of actions, but click on anything with the mouse, but that would be time consuming with the controller I suppose. idk, I guess my main issue is the AP limitations. They shouldn't limit you on how many spells you can put up from a single class, but then there's the issue about cross-class skill using, and etc etc etc. I don't think we should be allowed to use Lancer/etc. abilities as a Conjurer or whatever, but a lot of people like that feature. I'm at a loss lol

Appealing to a niche market isn't going to make FFXIV successful. Instead of picking one or the other like so many people seem to insist on, why can't we have an MMORPG that is also a Final Fantasy? You won't see me playing this game if it turns into an online Final Fantasy, past Final Fantasy games have been designed around single player content. You can be a lot more innovative when you don't have to worry about damage formulas, threat tables, skill balancing to make sure each class is equally viable, etc. This game should be a MMO first, Final Fantasy second. It should be both.

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Originally Posted by toshimoog

I guess that's true, but I just wish the action bar system wasn't so limiting. Setting skills to the action bars with AP costs, especially on CON gets kind of annoying because the game limits us on our own spells and what we are allowed to use at any one time.

I agree that the action bars are pretty much the same setup as the macro bar from FFXI. That makes sense. I think the main problem is that this is a controller-based game. I was just thinking it would be easier just to make a chart of all your spells to where you can see them all at once without having to scroll through 3 different rows of actions, but click on anything with the mouse, but that would be time consuming with the controller I suppose. idk, I guess my main issue is the AP limitations. They shouldn't limit you on how many spells you can put up from a single class, but then there's the issue about cross-class skill using, and etc etc etc. I don't think we should be allowed to use Lancer/etc. abilities as a Conjurer or whatever, but a lot of people like that feature. I'm at a loss lol

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Have you ever played Mass Effect by any chance? what they should do for the PS3 version of the game which will obviously make use of the controller more often is make the round menu thingy that ME uses - you would basically set abilities to a round menu which would be accessed by holding R2 for instance and moving the analog stick in the direction of the ability and pressing the action button.

BTW as for limiting your abilities as a Conjurer I heard this mentioned yesterday too and someone said that they get the impression from the latest producer letter that they are going to allow us to use all our classes' abilities after the battle changes (I'm not 100% sure on this but it could be true because Yoshi mentioned that abilities will be automatically equipped when you get them, although I interpreted it to be different but who know you might get your wish).

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Originally Posted by Mack

Have you ever played Mass Effect by any chance? what they should do for the PS3 version of the game which will obviously make use of the controller more often is make the round menu thingy that ME uses - you would basically set abilities to a round menu which would be accessed by holding R2 for instance and moving the analog stick in the direction of the ability and pressing the action button.

BTW as for limiting your abilities as a Conjurer I heard this mentioned yesterday too and someone said that they get the impression from the latest producer letter that they are going to allow us to use all our classes' abilities after the battle changes (I'm not 100% sure on this but it could be true because Yoshi mentioned that abilities will be automatically equipped when you get them, although I interpreted it to be different but who know you might get your wish).

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That'd be pretty cool