What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Zodiark and Nidhogg aren’t original characters either. Zodiark was a summon in FF Tactics and in FFXII he was a dark-aligned god whose power was limited by light-aligned powers who were fearful of him, just like in FFXIV. Nidhogg was an HNM (sort of like a world boss) giant dragon from FFXI. Killing him even got you the same title in FFXIV as killing him in FFXI did.

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I hesitated before I mentionned Zodiark since he's visually so distinct from his FFXII counterpart, but with the Ascians being very obscure FFXII references it's indeed likely the similarities are intentional. I didn't know that Nidhogg was used elsewhere in the franchise though.

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Considering Golbez is probably only going to be relevant as a villain in less than a handful of patches, I think it’s fine.

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With Endwalker being the FFIV expansion, it's probably the case. It's still more than I would have liked for a MSQ villain. Kuja is my favorite villain in the franchise but I can't imagine myself being satisfied if they just reused him in a completely different game. I'd rather have them create a similar character if that's the archetype they need.
I don't know why I feel as such? I'm not overly found of crossovers for similar reasons.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

the difference was that before I felt that there was a reason for these characters to be there, and what I feel today is more an appeal to nostalgia. As I said, what was the full involvement of the Magus? Okay they are primals, so what? They barely appear, they're gone so that you can't even remember that they ever existed. I don't doubt that the same thing will happen with these 4 bootlickers from Golbez, where in a few months we won't even remember they existed anymore

As for how often this happens, I can't say, because for me they're all new characters, since I haven't played any games

Edit: What I mean is that I'm seeing very often people see some beloved character from some other FF, and they get a lot of hype about it. My friend himself was excited about the Magus, he told me they were his favorite characters. At the end of the dungeon he himself was left with the taste of "is that it?"

As soon as the new patch came out, it didn't take long for posts to appear from people saying that Golbez's lords were killed quickly and rushed.

To me who've never seen them before, they look like just any NPC without deep development. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

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It's called bad fanservice at this point. SE pooped the bed when it came to the Dissida IP and it's starting to feel like XIV is going to fill in that role. :/

Golbez is one of my favourite characters in the franchise of a whole. I was under the impressive that fanservice was meant to serve...fans. I want more than a character being lifted from another game and existing to be beaten up by this game's ragtag band of samey, overly preachy protagonists. I hope the game has him accomplish something of note and does not neglect the simple fact that his counterpart was given a redemption story and ended up not being an outright villain...

It's just a shame that so many original characters and regions to FFXIV have been neglected or scrapped unceremoniously. Including some of the bigger ones built up for years.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Golbez is one of my favourite characters in the franchise of a whole. I was under the impressive that fanservice was meant to serve...fans. I want more than a character being lifted from another game and existing to be beaten up by this game's ragtag band of samey, overly preachy protagonists. I hope the game has him accomplish something of note and does not neglect the simple fact that his counterpart was given a redemption story and ended up not being an outright villain...

It's ajust a shame that so many original characters and regions to FFXIV have been neglected or scrapped unceremoniously. Including some of the bigger ones built up for years.

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Gabranth is one of my favorite villains in the series and he had his own redemption as well and he was completely lifted from FFXII and placed in Bozja but I don’t have a problem with it. Some people I’ve been talking to are fans of FFIV and were ecstatic to see Golbez.

Everyone is going to have their own opinion, but considering Yoshi-P has been up front about crossovers for the past 10 years, I wouldn’t take it as a surprise when they appear and are slightly different from their source. This is just the type of game this is and always has been.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Golbez is one of my favourite characters in the franchise of a whole. I was under the impressive that fanservice was meant to serve...fans. I want more than a character being lifted from another game and existing to be beaten up by this game's ragtag band of samey, overly preachy protagonists. I hope the game has him accomplish something of note and does not neglect the simple fact that his counterpart was given a redemption story and ended up not being an outright villain...

It's just a shame that so many original characters and regions to FFXIV have been neglected or scrapped unceremoniously. Including some of the bigger ones built up for years.

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Part of the reason why Golbez works as an antagonist is his accomplishments as you've mentioned -

My introduction to this character in the 3d version that I played before the 2d ones was him marching in, sweeping aside the party with a wave of his hand and abducting the protagonist's girlfriend with an elemental crystal in tow.

Instead so far we've killed 2 fiends quite easily and Golbez is still being vague about his plans, and doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. This is achieving the total opposite effect and people who haven't played FFIV don't have a lot of reasons to be interested in him. If I hadn't played that game, I wouldn't either.

For Golbez to be anywhere near as effective as he was in FFIV in this game they have to take off the safety lock and set him loose. Have him kill Y'shtola permanently for her latest act of using forbidden magic against him. Have him humble and humiliate both Vrtra and Estinien in terms of martial prowess. Render him immune to Zero's instafix solution for Voidsent killing and force the protagonist faction to become stronger to defeat him.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gJllC9DBGEc/maxresdefault.jpg

His eventual redemption at the end of FFIV and his later arc in the After Years solidified him as one of my favorite characters in the Franchise, I just hope that whenever we take off this Golbez's armor that it isn't the 13th's Zenos staring back at us.

https://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-...n_in_Black.jpg

They want to push so much "don't you love your little brother?" messaging in this game, how about we get an older brother whose infinitely more tolerable than the likes of Vrtra and Alphinaud? Because Estinien sure doesn't seem to fit that role anymore, and apart from everyone's interactions with Zero the cast is void of any meaningful chemistry at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I get that that was the message, but it rang really hollow for me. The whole time I was thinking, "of course people die, and civilizations end, does that make life not worth living?" And honestly the whole expansion was just constant "oh woe is us, life sucks". good lord, I get it, I went through depression too, but 30 hours of cutscenes just repeating the same message starts to drain on you. What's insane is that in the end, it took us just beating the shit out of a silly bird to knock some sense into her. It was just ridiculous.

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You know the expansion sucks when ZENOS provides the most profound and understandable rationale for dealing with life's travails and travesties.

Zenos: "Life sucks, and then you die. But regardless, you have to find your own reason for living and fuck everyone else."

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Gabranth is one of my favorite villains in the series and he had his own redemption as well and he was completely lifted from FFXII and placed in Bozja but I don’t have a problem with it. Some people I’ve been talking to are fans of FFIV and were ecstatic to see Golbez.

Everyone is going to have their own opinion, but considering Yoshi-P has been up front about crossovers for the past 10 years, I wouldn’t take it as a surprise when they appear and are slightly different from their source. This is just the type of game this is and always has been.

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Okay. I'm gonna be honest with you. If Square shits the bed with Golbez in XIV (it's too early to tell definitively, but it's certainly looking that way so far with two Archfiends dead in a single patch), then those who you talked to aren't true fans of IV. Considering Golbez' characterization and story in the game he's from, any so called fan who liked he showed up in XIV but was ultimately disrespected and done nothing with is either a lame fan only interested in the superficial, or no fan at all of IV.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Gabranth is one of my favorite villains in the series and he had his own redemption as well and he was completely lifted from FFXII and placed in Bozja but I don’t have a problem with it. Some people I’ve been talking to are fans of FFIV and were ecstatic to see Golbez.

Everyone is going to have their own opinion, but considering Yoshi-P has been up front about crossovers for the past 10 years, I wouldn’t take it as a surprise when they appear and are slightly different from their source. This is just the type of game this is and always has been.

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...and if those 'slight differences' somehow lead to things being straight up black and white morality, I'll be bored. I care about nuance. I've been pushing for more stuff like FFXII over the years not only because that and Gabranth was my favourite aspect of the overall franchise. Unfortunately things didn't play out as intended and Matsuno wasn't able to finish the Bozja storyline in the manner that he desired, though at least we got a compromise through the field notes so it wasn't left without any resolution whatsoever.

I also think there's mixed messaging. His excuse for no Ultimecia back during Eden's final was something along the lines of it being 'FFXIV and not FFVIII'. It seems very pick and choose as to when fan service is embraced and even then it's usually directed at whoever is the loudest.

I have a sneaking suspicion Golbez will end up being a Well-Intentioned Extremist, and what he does will in fact have some positive outcome in the making for the 13th, but in return will cause a lot of problems for the Source and the rest of the shards.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

...and if those 'slight differences' somehow lead to things being straight up black and white morality, I'll be bored. I care about nuance. I've been pushing for more stuff like FFXII over the years not only because that and Gabranth was my favourite aspect of the overall franchise. Unfortunately things didn't play out as intended and Matsuno wasn't able to finish the Bozja storyline in the manner that he desired, though at least we got a compromise through the field notes so it wasn't left without any resolution whatsoever.

I also think there's mixed messaging. His excuse for no Ultimecia back during Eden's final was something along the lines of it being 'FFXIV and not FFVIII'. It seems very pick and choose as to when fan service is embraced and even then it's usually directed at whoever is the loudest.

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As I said above, seems FFXIV only panders to those interested in the superficial. Personally, I'd prefer if they borrowed more from the narrative of the games they're referencing. I'm weary of yet more "Oh, look! Here's Kefka, isn't he great?!" with no substance. It's lazy, trite and getting real fucking old.

I never saw the throwbacks in XIV as more than bait for "I clapped when I saw it" effect personally.
Even if they reference their stories, it either feels gratuitous nostalgia pandering or an excuse to rehash entire plots so they only need to fit them in the XIV mold...

So I'd say I'm in the camp who'd rather they tried to be more original more often instead of copying the homework from past games for stories. Well, at least if they're not going to borrow anything that is WORTH borrowing like more gameplay depth and less MCU style writing.