Frontlines sucks Ultra megathread

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Originally Posted by Aravell

The commander hate only seems to be a thing on NA/EU, honestly.

JP has at least 5 commanders last time I checked, they play the same way with chat macros, markers and burst countdowns. The only difference is that they're loved on JP, a lot of people thank a good commander after a win. So no, commanders aren't exactly universally despised.

Regarding 7.1 though, didn't they promise an FL overhaul? Guess we'll find out what that's about.

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it is very different for us. the commanders actually play for the competition, vs teams that have the other commanders.

this also happens on all maps. most games, if the other teams do not have any clear command, the commander plays more relaxed, and does not aim to just wipe other teams over and over to inflate ego.

there is a very different culture because it is promoting competition between two organized force, which is much more enjoyable to both teams.

NA/EU have very few commander. so the team who gets one will almost always win by a landslide. it is not fun for any team.

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Originally Posted by saucyshortcake

lmao his next stream just happens to be scheduled for the next day shatter runs!

but no guys he's not just a one trick pony.

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What puzzles me about streaming Shatter is that it's by far the least popular map. You'd think a streamer would wish to optimize viewership? Not that I know anything about it. It'd never occur to me that people would want to watch me playing a video game when they could be playing games themselves.

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Originally Posted by saucyshortcake

it is very different for us. the commanders actually play for the competition, vs teams that have the other commanders.

this also happens on all maps. most games, if the other teams do not have any clear command, the commander plays more relaxed, and does not aim to just wipe other teams over and over to inflate ego.

there is a very different culture because it is promoting competition between two organized force, which is much more enjoyable to both teams.

NA/EU have very few commander. so the team who gets one will almost always win by a landslide. it is not fun for any team.

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I think it's also because the general player skill level is more balanced?

It feels like even without a commander, people still make good decisions and generally play ok.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I think it's also because the general player skill level is more balanced?

It feels like even without a commander, people still make good decisions and generally play ok.

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Very much so. And this does happen on NA sometimes in the absence of premades. This is why we've floated everything from matchmaking algorithms to reducing rewards. But I'd suggest it's precisely those battles where there is little commanding where people are compelled to look at the map and figure out how the mode works. You learn absolutely nothing by racing around after a "D" with a 3-2-1 countdown banging in your shell-like.

It also illustrates another flaw in Olivia's logic. We do have this "rouletter" population on NA, many of whom have no desire to get better. But they are not going to leave because they constantly get curbstomped! They're there for the XP and don't give a hoot about what transpires on the battlefield. The people it will drive off are those with potential and a willingness to learn, who conclude (not incorrectly) that NA FL matches are currently dominated by a curbstomping clique.

In other words, Olivia's offensive statement that she will drive out the weakies by beating them with her premade barrage will never work. It'll just drive away players with the desire to get better, but who don't respond well to The One True Path being "beaten" into them.

As we used to say in Kansas, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Similarly, you attract a new crop of players through engaging, balanced matches, not cynical noob-farming, as those on Dynamis can attest.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Very much so. And this does happen on NA sometimes in the absence of premades. This is why we've floated everything from matchmaking algorithms to reducing rewards. But I'd suggest it's precisely those battles where there is little commanding where people are compelled to look at the map and figure out how the mode works. You learn absolutely nothing by racing around after a "D" with a 3-2-1 countdown banging in your shell-like.

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While I understand your point of giving people the free space to learn, I do think a guiding hand is necessary at times.

If you give a new PvP player total freedom to learn with no guiding hand, they may come to very wrong conclusions.

Like they might learn "Let them fight and we take objectives" instead of "Fight often as allowed to curb enemy battle high while building your own", or they might learn "1st place is too strong, we should pick off the other team and secure 2nd place" instead of "1st place is too strong, we need to pincer 1st place when they go in to attack the other team".

While learning on your own is fine, I do think people serious about playing the mode should probably seek out some guides or guidance from a veteran so they don't fall into the very common noob traps.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I think it's also because the general player skill level is more balanced?

It feels like even without a commander, people still make good decisions and generally play ok.

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it is much more of a population that wants to be there, to enjoy the game. it is less about skill(frontline is very low skill environment) and more about player engagement and attention.

NA is very different. in JP, you will see many of the same players from game to game. in NA, you can play 2-3 games, and see almost no repeat characters.

this is also a bad time for comparison though. many players are back for expansion and using frontline to level only.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

While I understand your point of giving people the free space to learn, I do think a guiding hand is necessary at times.

If you give a new PvP player total freedom to learn with no guiding hand, they may come to very wrong conclusions.

Like they might learn "Let them fight and we take objectives" instead of "Fight often as allowed to curb enemy battle high while building your own", or they might learn "1st place is too strong, we should pick off the other team and secure 2nd place" instead of "1st place is too strong, we need to pincer 1st place when they go in to attack the other team".

While learning on your own is fine, I do think people serious about playing the mode should probably seek out some guides or guidance from a veteran so they don't fall into the very common noob traps.

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Oh I think guides have an important place in any game. In fact one of the things that surprises me about 14 is that, given the massive player base, there's a surprising absence of YT content for PvP. Try searching, for example, for a CC beginner's guide and about all you get is something from MrHappy that came out just after release.

I think people who are serious about the mode will always seek out advice. When I got into FL, my primary concern was that my initial incompetence was going to negatively impact my team, so I watched anything tagged as a FL beginner's guide. In fact it's probably Wesk's video that generated my preference for not contesting Onsal mid unless it's the only node up.

Some of the general principles outlined in Olivia's guide are useful in this regard.

The cheaters are beyond disgusting and its so obvious. It would require a single dev to play a few matches per day and spot the cheaters and take action immediately. After a few bans the cheating would drop way off instantly. One easy to spot and prime example of cheating is the players of DK's who use a program to flawlessly perform their lb without fail to survive a ninja lb that would have killed them. The DK lb was not designed as a free lb survive skill. This is obvious exploitation of the skill using a program as i play nin ja and see the same DK players perform this miraculous lb initiation over and over in every match. It is obviously a program, no human is even remotely that perfect or fast at pressing their lb to avoid death from a ninja lb like they do. Please have a dev familiar with front lines play and see these players cheating and ban them immediately. I am beyond disgusted that i pay a sub for a game that allows such blatant cheating to happen every day every match.

The amount of cheating in PVP is ridiculous. Will SE please have a dev play frontlines and ban the OBVIOUS cheaters. It would only take a few bans to make the cheaters scurry away like the cockroaches they are. One obvious cheat is the DK players using a program that activates their lb to survive a ninja assassination or monk lb. I play ninja and monk and i have seen these cheater DK's perform this miraculous lb timing over and over and over in a match and every match all night. This is obvious program cheat usage and a DEV playing a few matches could spot this easily and ban the offender on the spot. A few bans is all it would take to make the coward cheaters run.

Yep, they are flocking to Dynamis with their "special" abilities and bullying around us randos. I try to report the obvious "special" ones when i can but all i get is hate from cheat apologists.