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Originally Posted by Zer0
You could argue that ERP is against the guidelines... I'd even agree with you. I think that there should be other things that take priority over it, like selling clears or flat out RMT... But here's the thing. It isn't just ERP that was hit. Standard, vanilla RP venues were hit... Something Yoshi-P has flat out encouraged to be part of the game. A dude asking for company while fishing got hit. People got hit for stuff that shouldn't be an issue.
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02-24-2021, 02:33 PMDreadCrow
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02-24-2021, 02:38 PMtestname
Good post OP, GMs really crosses the line
And No one gives a cent for horde of bots using hacks walking and teleporting
People will soon report others for even RP tag - because in theirs eyes is just for satanic vulgar purposes -
02-24-2021, 02:42 PMPentheaAh I'm kind of on the fence on erp. While adults should be able to engage in it if they like, this game isn't rated only for adults. Minors also play this game so by engaging with erp they may be engaging in activity that isn't suitable for their age...yes yes this is the internet and adult entertainment is very easy to access, but there could be some legal ramifications if SE are seen to endorse activity that doesn't align with the age rating for the game. It's a very grey area that they should tread very carefully.Quote:
Originally Posted by AllieKitz
But of course there are people who think all rp is erp so then reports with the intent of stopping erp end up inhibiting players who aren't doing that at all. Maybe even some GMs share that opinion with some players...which may be why this whole thing got out of hand.
Suggestion of adult entertainment isn't the same as a player actively engaging in it. Which is why some movies rated for teens have sex scenes even though in their country they may not yet be at the age of consent.Quote:
Originally Posted by LisSquid
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02-24-2021, 02:42 PMLufir
This is a great step forward in cleaning up party finder. Thank you GMs! It was getting bad to the point where it was looking like some trashy craigslist spinoff.
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02-24-2021, 02:46 PMAshemmiYes. :) This all used to be much easier when we as a community were a little quieter about certain styles of play. I don't have personal objections to things that SOMETIMES show up in PF, I can see where others would. My entire point is that there is a line, and from time to time it gets crossed. PF as a whole shouldn't suffer, but we should be a little more clean about what we put up there. There are children who play this game, and no method besides policy to block what's seen. What we present in 'public' should keep that in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taytay
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02-24-2021, 02:55 PMKanehana
For real though, my heart goes out to the guy making a PF for a companion while fishing. I also used PF a couple times, hoping to get some gil from overmelding materia for others using the OTHER tab. Using the OTHER tab for RP or meeting other people hasn't been an issue for YEARS (and it was also fun to discover RP venues through it, whenever I fancied,) and unless if it was explicitly advertised as Erotic RP, it was very obviously not against the TOS to my knowledge.
"Run sellers advertising on Duty Roulette Tab" aside, what was the OTHER tab supposed to be used for, anyway? RPing also isn't functionally a party, but it's a gathering of people nonetheless. When it comes to legal issues or rules, I would have expected that the GM explained what was SPECIFICALLY wrong, but I see none of it. People have also been saying that the GM have private rules that players must adhere to -- which is even crazier to think about. How is anyone supposed to know what is allowed? -
02-24-2021, 02:55 PMEoko
First off, as has been stated multiple times, this is about RP venues being targeted indiscriminately. It has nothing to do with ERP, brothels, lap dance, etc. None of this was brought up in the initial conversation that created this.
Secondly, FFXIV is rated T, not PG-13. PG-13 is for pre-teens with a strong encouragement that they be supervised by parents when watching. And, online interaction is not rated.
Thirdly, this is a global game, with servers and head offices in multiple countries. Japan itself has a massive industry in Love Hotels alone. Does the Japanese side of the game have similar RP venues to the North American? What laws take precedent? And do you honestly think anyone in a law enforcement setting (hi, I work in Enforcement) give the slightly care to people role playing lap dances on an online video game? Get over yourselves with the "it's illegal somewhere". Cool. It's not illegal everywhere. And at no point is legality actually coming into these specific situations.
Finally, the Section 10 is vague as hell. Again, Enforcement, degree in this stuff, actually have worked with a law office. "You must not use the Services to distribute any content that is obscene, pornographic, defamatory, hateful, or illegal, or that violates the intellectual property rights or other rights of any person or entity."
Distribute any content. Okay. Is a conversation content? Is an interaction content? Is using emotes and conversation to carry on a public scene that would most definitely be something one might observe in even a PG-13 movie content? What is content? First, you would have to argue that a role play interaction is content. Now, what about obscene? What is obscene? I can guarantee that this is subjective. Furthermore, something that would be obscene in visual media is highly unlikely to be considered as obscene in written form. What about pornographic. Displaying of female breasts might be considered pornographic. Although, several states have made it legal for women to go topless, so even that's not universal in North America. We cannot actually show nudity in FFXIV. Is saying "naked boobs" pornographic? I think not. "He spun his ding-a-ling like a meme of yesteryear". Again...highly doubt that's going to fly. Besides, those are the vastly rare situations. And when ERP does occur, it's a consensual choice between two people. It is not being distributed to the community.
You want to throw around legality? Well, that is how legality actually works. Lawyers tear theses things apart. And officers always think in terms of viability in court.
That's why Terms of Service are universal, and outlined by a private business that doesn't have to actually go to court to do anything with you if you do something it deems to go against said ToS. Legal support in various countries, as Yoshi P claims to have, is for much more serious offenses. ToS doesn't use legality. They use a banhammer.
Going to an 18+ venue, where the goal is simply to have an adult clientele, where there is literally nothing more than dancing and a bartender is not obscene, or pornographic, but it still wants an 18+ group. You know what else demands 18+? Voting. You can't say that advertising 18+ is inherently anything even questionable. And dear lord, even if it's two people consenting to erp who cares? It's those two people "risking" anything. I swear, the people that are against erp come off like they expect to be hogtied and forced into a rp orgy or something. You don't have to be into it, or even like it, but it's the oldest profession in the world. It's gonna endure.
But, again, not. the. point. The point is using the Party Finder to advertise any sort of social interaction that isn't content. Which... by that logic, erp isn't "content" and thus can't fall under section 10. I mean, based on Mr. GM W. -
02-24-2021, 02:58 PMLisSquidWhich is exactly what the brothel PF ads are. Suggestion. They weren't even half of the listings hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
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02-24-2021, 03:00 PMPentheaYes but these suggestions are giving players access to actively engage directly as a participant in adult entertainment. Movies don't do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by LisSquid
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02-24-2021, 03:01 PMLisSquidYou're not erping with the ad. You aren't getting frisky with a movie. You might go and get erp as you might get frisky with you s/o while watching a movie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea