Please implement something to teach players how to play

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

that's how they argue, they just skip over parts they don't have an answer to and try to move goalposts as soon as possible, as seen throughout this whole thread (and a similar one a while ago where it was a very similar topic and their posts were almost exactly the same, 60 year old granny that doesn't know what DoTs are included - though... have you two never tried to explain DoTs to her, shown her how they work?!)

others from that "camp" argue the same way, too, which is where those clone comments from miashino are coming from, I guess?
always with the exaggeration, unnecessary hyperbole posted like a fact etc..
also look how some of them conveniently don't respond to people because they don't fit into that "elitist raider" image they've put up rent free in their head

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I think I have officially been dubbed an elitist raider, when I have just done story content. Maybe it was my palace of the dad scores, or my extremely high parses fighting one of the opo opos back when I first started as a bard. I did make it to floor 120, I may need to go and find where those scores are kept and see if I could delete them. Maybe it was a big pull in Akadaemia Anyder that I was proud of before I realized I could have pulled two more mobs and had to do a two enemy pull of shame. Ironically they were all upset about people speed running content and being elitist, but when I said something about people rapid pulling when trying to wait for a response it was suddenly okay for those people to speed running and be elitists within content. It was my fault for expecting people to not be jerks apparently. Though this entire time they have been complaining about the same thing, but it could never be their faults. They are the gods of this world, not I, the lowly dragon person of questionable gender.

I take toxic elitist over toxic casuals any day of the week. With both might be jerks, atleast the elitist know how to hit buttons so they are easier to ignore.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

what type of loser would I be if I did not defend my wife from being called every name in the book because the cult of players at the time did not want to see how bad the CS was and the community had issues?

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Pretty much every time so far her reputation has caught fire -- albeit usually for her own inflammatory or disingenuous remarks -- you've only ever doused her... with accelerant. That hardly seems a noble favor and may be far worse than the kind of "loser" who gives level advice as to where a given comment makes no sense, is utterly narcissistic, etc., as appropriate so she can decide whether to backpaddle or adjust before you've added your momentum to the crash course.

Nearly the worst you can do is add fire, as you have, especially if with poorly thought-out or contradictory messages like condemning others for heirarchicalizing others just before gloating about your...

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Putting people in place. :D

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Originally Posted by Faafetai

I think I have officially been dubbed an elitist raider

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I am beginning to wonder if this Ralph person suffers from bipolar disorder or histrionic personality disorder, perhaps borderline? One moment they are making complete and absolute sense the next they are weaving elaborate tales or placing words into the mouths of others. It is like a reality was created within the mind and is being projected onto every possible entry point in the conversation.

Back through the post history we gooooooo, nope. I am not seeing anything suggesting players should insult one another over performance, I am seeing a whooole lot of condemning that behavior though.

Perhaps we can return to the original topic? Yes? Maybe even Ralph has a few ideas about how the game could better teach new players how to play it?

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

Ok that would be my mistake then because I assumed you were attempting to connect player performance to being a "decent human being" which is something really wrong and ugly but wouldnt be surprised if certain gamers would attempt it.

Again though I will stand by my point that having such expectations from people is ridiculous, like you might wish for everyone to be nice and friendly and positive but sadly that will never be a thing, at least not at this day and age so having such expectations is silly because they will only get crushed repeatedly, you can be nice yourself and try to promote it but you cannot have such expectations because they are simply not realistic.


I can understand that you dont like it and especially the gcbtw but it honestly feels the worst people are often in the forums, my ingame experience though I am in JP DC has been incredibly positive, I think i ve only run once to an angry elitist who was insulting and literally spamming /spit on someone for not attacking adds in SHIVA NORMAL which can literally be beaten with 2-3 dps dead so him obsessing over adds was moronic, which is something i instantly reported and thankfully his emote spam made it reportable by me as well.

Most people's ingame experience seems to be extremely positive which can make people feel like it is a great community, only once you come into the forums or start going into high end groups you start seeing this massive amount of tryhard elitists attacking others and whining about how their runs are less efficient, something that a big part of the community never really sees which makes the great community thing kinda true for them.

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The experience with duty finder in NA is just a mess, honestly I have gotten a decent amount of nice people, but it truly is a dice roll. For every super fun run with sprouts with no expectations there is another with some weirdo freaking out on people. Then there is the person I had in Qarn who just skipped all of the loot when the sprout was there for the first time. I think leveling a dps is cursed. I just wished to level dps so I knew what to expect when going into content. I wished to know what the ground aoes dps put down so I do not mistaken it for an enemies. What other classes may be viewing from their portion of the battle field. What mechanics they have within their class such as ninja's needed to refresh their pinwheel and not to chain pull because you can not become hidden during combat like in other games I have played that had separate skills for being able to hide in combat. Maybe NA data centers themselves are cursed. I just wish to relax, and not get into something every other time with someone with a bad attitude. I honestly thought it was a meme about people blaming healers too, a tank actually blamed the healer for their death in sleepy snowcloak.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Pretty much every time so far her reputation has caught fire -- albeit usually for her own inflammatory or disingenuous remarks -- you've only ever doused her... with accelerant. That hardly seems a noble favor and may be far worse than the kind of "loser" who gives level advice as to where a given comment makes no sense, is utterly narcissistic, etc., as appropriate so she can decide whether to backpaddle or adjust before you've added your momentum to the crash course.

Nearly the worst you can do is add fire, as you have, especially if with poorly thought-out or contradictory messages like condemning others for heirarchicalizing others just before gloating about your...

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Oh boy. I'm not even going to comment on that one. Either way that thread was bad all around for myself and the community. I talked with gms to clear it up, and the person was dealt with. So all well that ends well. The person going back and using the past as a way to discredit me all because he does not agree, Looks bad on them more so than me to bring up a 5-6 year old thread. I explain my reasons, and I also fully support my wife play style. It is not anyone in the community place to tell her how to play in a pug settings.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Oh boy. I'm not even going to comment on that one. Either way that thread was bad all around for myself and the community. I talked with gms to clear it up, and the person was dealt with. So all well that ends well. The person going back and using the past as a way to discredit me all because he does not agree, Looks bad on them more so than me. I explain my reasons, and I also fully support my wife play style. It is not anyone in the community place to tell her how to play in a pug settings.

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But everyone else having to compromise on their play style in order to accommodate your wife's play style in pug groups and she never has to compromise is unfair to other players.

Your wife should be the one to compromise sometimes.

I suggest she compromises in dungeons as a start. Where her preferred style of play has the most negative impact to the ability to complete the content.

Now, if you use the PF to find a group that's willing to carry her, then go for it. She doesn't have to compromise because the others agreed to make up for her play style's short comings.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I thought very much before I wrote it.

Thinking absolutely can be fun for some people. I'm one of them. I like solving puzzles.

But I also like other things. I don't want to be spending all of my time solving puzzles when that's taking time away from other things I also want to do.

Not everyone finds THINK to be fun. They just want to relax after a stressful day doing other things. But perhaps your own ability to THINK is too narrow to understand that.

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"I want to relax, but I don't want to just do the things made to be relaxing, so I want the stuff that wasn't (originally) intended just to (continue to) be changed until it is similarly relaxing."

You realize this applies in the inverse, too, right? "I want to really cognitively engage in something, but I don't want to just do the content forms to which that engagement has been constrained (8-man boss arenas), so I want stuff to see some among the later iterations of content forms that haven't always been intended to be cognitively engaging to offer cognitive engagement."

But, alas, somehow the first, despite being the more reductive, is fine, while the latter would likely trigger uproar...

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There is content to be played while relaxing or to relax. No one is suggesting that such be removed, only that cognitive load not be increasingly restricted to Savage, Ultimates, and the occasional harder Extreme trial -- in other words, only to be found off the main road and in perfectly circular or rectangular rooms -- or divorced from the common player experience, per the trajectory of changes since the game's release, be that to the content itself or to job toolkits and playflow.

:: Many here would also add, if the game did a better job of situating its own tools (its stuff to be interacted with or made use of), engagement would be less at odds with relaxation, and vice versa.

For instance, look at endgame dungeons on ARR's release and shortly thereafter, such as pre-nerf Amdapor Keep or Pharos Sirius. Look at dungeons now.

Especially in the context of the job playflows themselves being so simplified, the norm has increasingly become one where cognitive load significant enough to be engaging for more than even just half the community is something you have to go out of your way for and is increasingly less diverse in its forms. And that trajectory appears likely to continue given the comments we've seen from the devs regarding the inevitable design constraints of "skill gap", for which they still solely blame the players, rather than their ability to facilitate or incentivize learning.

Even a request to keep things the same as they are now, then, is asking for a change to that trajectory, which others will then take as reason to get up in arms against "entitled elitists" for their wanting there to remain some semblance of diversity in content with cognitive load, or even just to not have yet another of their main jobs gutted. God forbid those "elitists" ask for further options with, for them, engaging cognitive load outside of merely perfectly circular or rectangular rooms. The horror.

Clearly, increased options in a direction that has more stuff available to interact with or make use of -- and to be used to the extent one has skill for -- would be horrid pandering to the oppressive elite. Meanwhile, steadily rounding up those forms of engagement and isolating them among Ultimate fights, while leaving the typical experience increasingly barren or shallow just so a select group doesn't feel as bad about not using the tools that would otherwise be offered them... is perfectly fine?

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Originally Posted by Seera1024

But everyone else having to compromise on their play style in order to accommodate your wife's play style in pug groups and she never has to compromise is unfair to other players.

Your wife should be the one to compromise sometimes.

I suggest she compromises in dungeons as a start. Where her preferred style of play has the most negative impact to the ability to complete the content.

Now, if you use the PF to find a group that's willing to carry her, then go for it. She doesn't have to compromise because the others agreed to make up for her play style's short comings.

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That is fine in a pug setting. It is up to the players to understand that is the content they are getting into. It is not her place to change because the content still gets done with how she plays. It is design to be done base off bad players.

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Originally Posted by Faafetai

The experience with duty finder in NA is just a mess, honestly I have gotten a decent amount of nice people, but it truly is a dice roll. For every super fun run with sprouts with no expectations there is another with some weirdo freaking out on people. Then there is the person I had in Qarn who just skipped all of the loot when the sprout was there for the first time. I think leveling a dps is cursed. I just wished to level dps so I knew what to expect when going into content. I wished to know what the ground aoes dps put down so I do not mistaken it for an enemies. What other classes may be viewing from their portion of the battle field. What mechanics they have within their class such as ninja's needed to refresh their pinwheel and not to chain pull because you can not become hidden during combat like in other games I have played that had separate skills for being able to hide in combat. Maybe NA data centers themselves are cursed. I just wish to relax, and not get into something every other time with someone with a bad attitude. I honestly thought it was a meme about people blaming healers too, a tank actually blamed the healer for their death in sleepy snowcloak.

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I play on NA servers and have seen very little issues on leveling roulette. I haven't seen a true bad apple in at least a month, but they are definitely out there. The skipping treasure chests is the norm, but usually if you ask the tank they will oblige (but to be honest many tanks may not even know here the chests are since nobody ever goes for them anyway)

AFAIK NIN does later get a skill that lets them cast their hide skills in combat, but I am definitely the sprout that ran out of the NIN fart cloud the first time I saw it thinking it was an enemy AoE