A summary of healer issues

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I wouldn't count on it. WHM could have 30% less output than all of the other healers and it would still be one of the most popular jobs in the game. Only healer you can level from 1, most brand recognition, and "BuT i LoVE HOw SiMPLe It IS" would still lock its popularity at the top. Cure and Medica could have 300 lower potency than Benefic and Helios and the community would call it "The Pure Raw Straightforward Powerhouse Healer".

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i play WHM...not because it's a "pure healer" but because it is simple, i've found it complex enough that it's not faceroll in some content, but...partly because...if you've got sound effects on..the thunk of a staff at melee range is utterly satisfying. Is it worse than others? yes. does it struggle in some content? Yes. Will I stop playing it? nope. I've tried SCH...i don't do well. at all. and WHM is not "The Pure Raw Straightforward powerhouse" anymore. most of it's niche has been taken away and i don't do savage content, EX content only with friends, so..i'm not looking for speed runs. Looking at AST and WHM side by side...i'm going to seriously hope that they do change thin air back to how it was before especially with how the MP Economy game is going.

We'll have to see how it goes, but we know that WHM will get...sorted enough to make it not a wreck in by 6.3 and hopefully NOT a ton of screaming and yelling from other healer mains.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

and hopefully NOT a ton of screaming and yelling from other healer mains.

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Oh I wouldn't count on that either ;) WHM is nebulously "overpowered" if it's ever anything other than weaker than the others in almost every single way. The other healers are totally fine with letting it be only slightly weaker, as long as it's clearly weaker.

I'm playing RDM this expansion, just like I did last. Because I'm tired of being bored while playing a game I pay for.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Oh I wouldn't count on that either ;) WHM is nebulously "overpowered" if it's ever anything other than weaker than the others in almost every single way. The other healers are totally fine with letting it be only slightly weaker, as long as it's clearly weaker.

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Hear. hear. I'll be leveling my WHM and DNC first because...one of 4 dedicated healers in my FC, eventually dipping a toe to see how this new...Sage job does...but...i'm notoriously bad at SCH so...i've little hopes i'm gonna be a good Sage LOL

"OMG WHM IS BETTER THAN <INSERT OTHER HEALER JOBS> NEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFF!"

yes, yes, i'm semi-making a joke, but...while i admit that SCH needs work just from talking to SCH mains, i'm living with someone that's an WHM Main, AST sub-main and man is she upset about the changes to the AST/WHM stuff.

we looked over the changes in the actions and stuff this morning and made faces.

You'll all be pleased to know that I have begun updating the first post. Cutting its size a bit and rewording parts.
Issues will look something like this

1. Lack of engagement when there is no need to heal (lack of dps gcds, buffs, debuffs etc)
2. Healing capability is too strong
3. Incoming damage is too weak, infrequent and scripted
4. Healers are too homogenised with no identity.
5. Healers have had core and beloved actions removed with nothing to replace them
6. Healers acquisition of new skills is slanted too far to the higher levels
7. Healers have no depth, synergy or skill ceiling.
8. Healer glamour is too feminine and too cloth focused
9. The healing role does not feel valued as part of the game

Section 2: List of issues with each healer job and suggested solutions

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

You'll all be pleased to know that I have begun updating the first post. Cutting its size a bit and rewording parts.
Issues will look something like this

1. Lack of engagement when there is no need to heal (lack of dps gcds, buffs, debuffs etc)
2. Healing capability is too strong
3. Incoming damage is too weak, infrequent and scripted
4. Healers are too homogenised with no identity.
5. Healers have had core and beloved actions removed with nothing to replace them
6. Healers acquisition of new skills is slanted too far to the higher levels
7. Healers have no depth, synergy or skill ceiling.
8. Healer glamour is too feminine and too cloth focused
9. The healing role does not feel valued as part of the game

Section 2: List of issues with each healer job and suggested solutions

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if this is verbatim, i suggest making everything more explicit. im not trying to be pedantic but rather to avoid misunderstandings when translating
for instance, 2. healing capability is too strong. too strong, compared to what, or by what standards?
i would write 2. healing capability is too strong compared to incoming damage.

or 4. healers are too homogenized with no identity. this one is specially controversial. the healing kits are all different and you can count even aesthetics as identity. perhaps something like "healer gameplay, especially during downtime, is too similar between the jobs" would be better?

#7 is a bit unclear to me. synergy in their own kit, or with each other (or both?). id also avoid hyperbole (i cant say they have no depth or skill ceiling, but i can sure as hell say its too low, that there are little ways to improve as a healer beyond basics, or something similar to that effect)

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Originally Posted by QooEr

if this is verbatim, i suggest making everything more explicit. im not trying to be pedantic but rather to avoid misunderstandings when translating
for instance, 2. healing capability is too strong. too strong, compared to what, or by what standards?
i would write 2. healing capability is too strong compared to incoming damage.

or 4. healers are too homogenized with no identity. this one is specially controversial. the healing kits are all different and you can count even aesthetics as identity. perhaps something like "healer gameplay, especially during downtime, is too similar between the jobs" would be better?

#7 is a bit unclear to me. synergy in their own kit, or with each other (or both?). id also avoid hyperbole (i cant say they have no depth or skill ceiling, but i can sure as hell say its too low)

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This, you have to make it all clear because it has to translate into other languages relatively well.

Each Healer right now has its own issues, some more than others. I would combine 1 and 2, because those are...related sort of 'points', but at the same time Boss Fights are scripted...mob pulls in dungeons are not exactly and eventually we'll be getting to points of skipping mechanics and...well...welcome to oGCDs not there when they're needed.

The suggestions have to go patch by patch and find things to 'suggest' in a way that's "To the point".

I also think 7 is...the fact that many of the healers have been stripped of their actions (see 5?) and so there is little depth overall? *shrug* not sure to be honest.

Looking at the list, i think some points could be combined to better help the points to get across.. 2 & 3 go to gether, 1, 5, maybe 4 go together?

...and hey...let's not get into glamours...that'll open up a whole different issue. especially if you've got a male character.

I can confirm that some of these are shortened to give a general idea. The actual issues will be more detailed

For example

2. Healing capabilities are too strong for the level of damage needed to heal in all content
-Very few fights in the game need two healers even at minimum Item level
-OGCD healing is strong and plentiful enough many fights can be healed entirely by OGCD
-Paladin and Warrior have enough sustain they do not need healing in some dungeons.
-All the ultimate fights have been solo healed
-Healer jobs are bloated with healing actions to the point some are made redundant.

Solutions:
- Increase amount of unavoidable damage
- decrease the strength of healing actions

I agree each healer has some problems more than others. But a lot of problems are shared across the role. That's why there is a section 2 detailing the individual healer problems

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

I can confirm that some of these are shortened to give a general idea. The actual issues will be more detailed

For example

2. Healing capabilities are too strong for the level of damage needed to heal in all content
-Very few fights in the game need two healers even at minimum Item level
-OGCD healing is strong and plentiful enough many fights can be healed entirely by OGCD
-Paladin and Warrior have enough sustain they do not need healing in some dungeons.
-All the ultimate fights have been solo healed
-Healer jobs are bloated with healing actions to the point some are made redundant.

Solutions:
- Increase amount of unavoidable damage
- decrease the strength of healing actions

I agree each healer has some problems more than others. But a lot of problems are shared across the role. That's why there is a section 2 detailing the individual healer problems

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ah i see. i appreciate it. i would suggest refraining from using fanmade terms like gcd & ogcd and using in-game terms like spell & abilities. or perhaps clarify them since these have to be translated to japanese.
id also argue that "All the ultimate fights have been solo healed" is more of an example of "Very few fights in the game need two healers even at minimum Item level" than a standalone issue.. maybe put them together?

Well, kit-wise it seems they fixed nothing and only further trashed the lore of the healer classes. And that from what I'm reading SGE seems to be kind of overpowered compared to the other three healers. Am yet to try it myself, though... but it wouldn't surprise me if they fucked up the balancing of the new shiny healer... especially so if it was intentional to try and push numbers or give a good early impression.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

Well, kit-wise it seems they fixed nothing and only further trashed the lore of the healer classes. And that from what I'm reading SGE seems to be kind of overpowered compared to the other three healers. Am yet to try it myself, though... but it wouldn't surprise me if they fucked up the balancing of the new shiny healer... especially so if it was intentional to try and push numbers or give a good early impression.

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Its absolutely to advertise the new job. I played it a little bit and on the first outing my friend had to solo heal the thunder god when I had a delivery to answer

She still wasn't 100% certain on the kit and was rearranging buttons throughout the run but she kept everyone alive like a champ. If someone who barely knows the job can solo heal TGcid despite multiple dumb players that stood in aoes to the tune of 8 stacks of vuln up, I would say that its really strong on those grounds alone