Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

Thank you Scintilla. I'm glad my memory isnt failing me just yet. I couldn't double check it due to being at work (graveyard shifts are so fun) and I could have sworn it was Thancred. Thanks again ^_^

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Originally Posted by Edax

That's my point. Zenos is physically strong but as politically weak as a kitten. He's the governor of 2 provinces that are under enemy control, there are rumors that he's actually dead or the puppet of foreign influences, he's infamous for having no interest in administration and for how he was disinherited out of the line of succession. National Leaders aren't chosen by how much they can bench press.

Zenos is so politically weak, nearly any military leader can make viable bid to be Emperorship now, and Zenos wont have time to personally slay every member of the rebel armies and even if he did, he would have just demolished the military strengthen of the Empire to get the throne. Though personally I don't think the writers will go down this path.

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Sorry. I probably should have put "functioning" republics and democracies. The empire is theoretically a monarchy with an advisory senate, from what I understand. Its not exactly a will of the people kind of setup, but its something that requires a normal man to be politically savvy in some fashion to achieve/maintain power. But that's b/c there are other people/groups in the system that can be a threat to you/your power if you don't handle them well. In this case, Zenos breaks that, b/c no one but a group of roughly 8 adventurers but the WoL is a threat to him. Maybe, if enough people were willing to die to get him, others could take him down. But they'd have to be some Badass Normals at this point, from what we've been shown. And quite a few of them, at that. Zenos has bypassed the usual checks on power b/c he's personally much stronger than anyone those checks could handle.

Their only saving grace is he doesn't particularly want power or to rule, so he'll likely just use the resources towards his own relatively narrow goals, and leave most of the country to languish. Which from the average garlean's perspective is bad, but I say count your blessings, guys.

...Unless (being as spoiler-free as possible here), he decides to take a page from FF15 in his pursuit of his goals. Then they're all screwed.

But yeah, there aren't OP supermen in the real world, so power doesn't work like that irl beyond pure warrior cultures, which are usually small and not something we'd consider a modern nation-state. But its completely consistent that power works like this in FF14's setting b/c there ARE OP supermen. Democaracy inevitably breaks when the populace is outgunned by those that seek to be tyrants.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

But yeah, there aren't OP supermen in the real world, so power doesn't work like that irl beyond pure warrior cultures, which are usually small and not something we'd consider a modern nation-state. But its completely consistent that power works like this in FF14's setting b/c there ARE OP supermen. Democaracy inevitably breaks when the populace is outgunned by those that seek to be tyrants.

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And Black Rose was the great equalizer, destroying even the Warrior of Light. Any Imperial Command who controls the remaining Black Rose stockpiles can resist Zenos at will. Tyrants don't gain loyalist out of fear, but of mutual interest and Zenos self-centered personality makes him politically weak since it's in almost no one's mutual interest to ally with an incompetent military leader and inept administrator. I'm not even sure Zeno's body hopping would work if subjected to Black Rose.

Black Rose is uncontrollable. Gassing the capitol isn't a viable option for someone who hates Zenos b/c he threatens the empire's interests. Or their own interests, which involve running the empire themselves. Though, sure, they could wait till he's out of town and hit him in a remote area and pray it works as planned.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be assassination attempts. Tyrants often field those. I was simply pointing out before that taking over when you have enough might to back you is what Zenos did and exactly how power works, as a response to your statement that it doesn't work like that. Niehter of us mentioned anything before about how long his rule would actually last.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Black Rose is uncontrollable. Gassing the capitol isn't a viable option for someone who hates Zenos b/c he threatens the empire's interests. Or their own interests, which involve running the empire themselves. Though, sure, they could wait till he's out of town and hit him in a remote area and pray it works as planned.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be assassination attempts. Tyrants often field those. I was simply pointing out before that taking over when you have enough might to back you is what Zenos did and exactly how power works, as a response to your statement that it doesn't work like that. Niehter of us mentioned anything before about how long his rule would actually last.

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Gassing the capital may entirely be a viable option. I don't know what the range is of Black Rose but it could conceivably just be a single canister in one room in the palace that would be enough to stop Zenos.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Gassing the capital may entirely be a viable option. I don't know what the range is of Black Rose but it could conceivably just be a single canister in one room in the palace that would be enough to stop Zenos.

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Except as was shown, one canister was all it took for Black Rose to go out of the Empire's control. A substance that essentially destroys Aether (which the entire world is formed from) would be uncontrollable and wouldn't be able to be gotten rid of by normal means. Normal gas? Enough of a breeze or wind would dissipate it. But something that destroys Aether, would not be fazed by wind, because IT WOULD DESTROY THE WIND ITSELF.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Except as was shown, one canister was all it took for Black Rose to go out of the Empire's control. A substance that essentially destroys Aether (which the entire world is formed from) would be uncontrollable and wouldn't be able to be gotten rid of by normal means. Normal gas? Enough of a breeze or wind would dissipate it. But something that destroys Aether, would not be fazed by wind, because IT WOULD DESTROY THE WIND ITSELF.

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But didn't the victims of Black Rose get personally inspected and thus implying that it does dissipate?

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Originally Posted by Edax

But didn't the victims of Black Rose get personally inspected and thus implying that it does dissipate?

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Are you talking about the encampment that Gaius and Alphinaud investigated?

Remember that the END OF THE WORLD Black Rose gas from the Crystal Exarch's timeline was supercharged by the light Aether flooding into the world due to the successful Calamity reabsorbing the First Shard. That stuff may work differently from the Black Rose we've seen used in the "real" timeline. It apparently maintained its potency for two hundred years, still causing problems at the time when the Ironworks staff gave up the world as a lost cause and started the Exarch on his journey.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Are you talking about the encampment that Gaius and Alphinaud investigated?

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Yes

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Remember that the END OF THE WORLD Black Rose gas from the Crystal Exarch's timeline was supercharged by the light Aether flooding into the world due to the successful Calamity reabsorbing the First Shard. That stuff may work differently from the Black Rose we've seen used in the "real" timeline. It apparently maintained its potency for two hundred years, still causing problems at the time when the Ironworks staff gave up the world as a lost cause and started the Exarch on his journey.

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So Black Rose can't kill Zenos?

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Originally Posted by Edax

So Black Rose can't kill Zenos?

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Probably not anymore, not so much because it's not supercharged anymore, more because Zenos can apparently just hop into a new body whenever he "dies".

Gets Black Rosed, hops into a corpse, gives his dead body a bit of a jiggle, hops back in.