What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Venat’s supposed to be hot? First and only person I’ve ever heard say that.

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That's very interesting. So you're saying that over the course of almost a decade of posting consistently over on the lore forum - which is notorious for harbouring many Venat enthusiasts - you never once saw someone refer to Hydaelyn and Venat as 'mOmMy' or comment on her appearance and mannerisms?

I'm going to have to cast major doubt on that if so.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Emet-Selch ended up saying that Venat’s plan would have worked more than his, and considering these characters came out of the writers’ heads, you would think that they know the characters and any possibilities better than we do.

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The Ascians were never informed of the cause of the Final Days, so of course the Ardor never would have led them to Ultima Thule to confront Meteion.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That's very interesting. So you're saying that over the course of almost a decade of posting consistently over on the lore forum - which is notorious for harbouring many Venat enthusiasts - you never once saw someone refer to Hydaelyn and Venat as 'mOmMy' or comment on her appearance and mannerisms?

I'm going to have to cast major doubt on that if so.

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Wanna go to the lore forums and grab an example of someone seriously thirsting for Venat if that's the case?

Granted, I don't open every single thread, but I've never heard of her described as "mommy" without being obviously facetious and never once seen her described as "hot" or "bangable". Also, we hadn't seen Venat's physical form before Endwalker so I don't know why a comment about being on the lore forums for a decade even matters when it comes to Hydaelyn's potential hotness or lack thereof.

If thirst by itself drove popularity polls in Japan, we'd see Y'shtola much higher than she is, but no amount of "hot" can save a character that doesn't have anything else going for her or the community actively dislikes.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Venat’s supposed to be hot? First and only person I’ve ever heard say that.

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You clearly haven't spent a half a day with FFXIV Twitter.

The game never does, that is true. But by her actions she is. You could write dialogue saying what she did is noble, necessary, for the greatest good etc. All day long. You could have Y'shtola say it. You could have Krile say it. But the words don't matter. The actions do.

I agree that it was supposed to be a runaway tragedy, but the writers undercut that severely by letting Venat keep her memory. That makes her actions deliberate.

Also Emet-selch was referring to the Sundered people's methods over the Ascians' methods, not Venat's "plan," and that's yet another cheap shot by the authors that makes zero logical sense. You cannot have a method to fix a problem that you do not realize exists.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

You clearly haven't spent a half a day with FFXIV Twitter.

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This, or Reddit. I don't even go looking for Venat fanart and I've seen plenty of NSFW stuff (unfortunately) not to mention Venat x Azem pairings.

Also, even though I hate her character, the model for Hydaelyn is stunning and easily one of the hottest women in the game.

As an aside, I've never thought Y'shtola is that attractive. It's more that FFXIV in general is sorely lacking in female eye candy.

The game would go a long way in the right direction by letting a woman with long hair join the party. In terms of heroines it's a stark contrast compared to previous FF games that have given us characters like Rosa, Celes, Rinoa, and so on.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

This, or Reddit. I don't even go looking for Venat fanart and I've seen plenty of NSFW stuff (unfortunately) not to mention Venat x Azem pairings.

Also, even though I hate her character, the model for Hydaelyn is stunning and easily one of the hottest women in the game.

As an aside, I've never thought Y'shtola is that attractive. It's more that FFXIV in general is sorely lacking in female eye candy.

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My favorite ones are the, "sapphic" profiles that have hot girl WoL on Venat busty action. (not really, but I've seen it over a dozen times without looking for it)

And yeah, I think she's hot too.

And yeah, it kind of is. I mean, I think Y'shtola is good looking. She doesn't make me drool or nothin' But I'm sure if they ever did anything remotely sultry with her, it'd get my motor running. I think Lyse is cute, but she's been sidelined. And I'd just die for Merlwyb, but I do have a thing for Roes, so...

Anyway, that's enough about that.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Also Emet-selch was referring to the Sundered people's methods over the Ascians' methods, not Venat's "plan," and that's yet another cheap shot by the authors that makes zero logical sense. You cannot have a method to fix a problem that you do not realize exists.

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On this point, it is in fact her he's praising. The EN version could be slightly clearer (although he opens his statement by referencing her), but in both FR and DE, he makes it clear that without a shadow of doubt, he is praising her:

For German, the translation is as follows:

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"That's typical for Venat, she hates losing. But I wonder why she left me behind? To preserve the continuity of the story? Or to remind me of real way the Final Days appeared to us?"
"I will be generous and assume it was a successful punchline."
"Anyway, this turn of events makes my life somewhat easier. I should be thankful to her."
"But I have to admit, reuniting us here was skillfully done. No wonder that we could not best her with our unrefined plans."

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French:

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"If she expects gratitude, she will be disappointed. My life was not quite a peaceful and quiet stroll, and this change of heart changes nothing."
"I must admit however she has quite the matchmaking skills. A human being would have never been able to set foot here with our methods."

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And this is in respect of her "gift of a matchmaker". I think that in fact this greatly attenuates any attempt to try present this as some concession on his part that the ancients couldn't have dealt with Meteion, because the "our methods" then is not contrasting those of an ancient to the sundered (since she, and all her methods, are based on ancient techniques/powers anyway), but of her to some other "our", which I believe can be taken as the Ascians.

...nonetheless, I think it breached character to let her off so lightly given the suffering she put them through and this felt like Yoshi shoving his head into the screen to speak through Emet.

I think Fordola with different hair and better eyebrows could be one of the better looking women in the game.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

...nonetheless, I think it breached character to let her off so lightly given the suffering she put them through and this felt like Yoshi shoving his head into the screen to speak through Emet.

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People keep falling back on Emet's dialog in UT when some of his writing was so grossly out of character I don't know how anyone can take it seriously. All of EW was written to uplift the character of Venat/Hydaelyn to the extent that I'd say it singularly ruined the expansion (and the lore in general) because it required bending or breaking all existing characters, especially the fan favorite.

The only reasonable explanation for why Emet didn't tear her a new one in that scene that I've seen was Brinne saying he wouldn't want to upset the WoL, which I can begrudgingly accept. I just think it's ridiculous of the two unsundered left one dies before ever learning the truth and the other is manipulated to fall in line.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Wanna go to the lore forums and grab an example of someone seriously thirsting for Venat if that's the case?

Granted, I don't open every single thread, but I've never heard of her described as "mommy" without being obviously facetious and never once seen her described as "hot" or "bangable". Also, we hadn't seen Venat's physical form before Endwalker so I don't know why a comment about being on the lore forums for a decade even matters when it comes to Hydaelyn's potential hotness or lack thereof.

If thirst by itself drove popularity polls in Japan, we'd see Y'shtola much higher than she is, but no amount of "hot" can save a character that doesn't have anything else going for her or the community actively dislikes.

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I've legit seen many people refer to Hydaelyn as ''Mommy crystal'' since the days of ARR. That aside, your position in a popularity contest most likely have nothing to do with how well-written you are. It more about what trope in game are WHEN they do the pool and where the story is at. Just take one piece for reference, during his main villain arc one char scored second place in a popularity contest, now is all down to like 20 or so. Also we've seen characther like Zoro in the show score high score in a popularity contest and his one of the most loved char overall...Even too he BY FAR the worst char in therm of development or just plot relevance.