#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by GoodPerson

I'm not trying to be rude but why even bother entering a thread focused around a particular point and then proceed to do everything except read the main posts to understand what "XIVHEALERSTRIKE" is trying to convey? And then make up stuff about it that neatly fits the "Bad nasty rude self-centered"-or whateverelse narrative you're dreaming of?

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Because it's filled with bad nasty rude self-centered people, myself included.

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Originally Posted by Kazmarek

Because it's filled with bad nasty rude self-centered people, myself included.

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I've been lurking this thread on and off between studying, and admittedly, you're pretty nice compared to the actual bad nasty & rude individuals that pop into the thread.

Probably bored, sure, but nice.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

I was replying to "healers are there to fix mistakes" argument, and your reply is under the premise of "healers being absent while you're downing the boss."

What are you even arguing?

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Just like their post in the jp forum about content sellers. (which got locked by a jp mod) :confused:
They're trying really hard to piss off the jp playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Yes. I'm getting a little tired of people waltzing in and claiming pro strike users are calling people names or being otherwise rude. This is the least rude game criticism topic possibly ever. The users being most rude and condescending are the critics, no question.

How about if you want to write an essay defaming us you back it up with a direct quote or a screenshot? Otherwise you will just be respectfully disregarded.

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I've definitely had some intense back and forths before with some people (Hi, Ren, how you doin?) But in this thread I've been very patient with people and the only time I've said anything even remotely snarky was at people who literally came in guns blazing, or lashed out at me.

Okay I’m gonna try to bring this back to healers here by connecting the feedback we have been offering to the design of what they gave us in DT as an example of why we think we continue to be ignored. Note the feedback I’m using here might not be 100% the most common feedback I’m just trying to paint a picture

WHM- high end feedback- excessive focus on glare spam and a lack of mitigation- squares response- add in another mitigation that is tied to your current mitigation when the feedback is that WHM’s mitigation is too long and inflexible. Tying caress to temperance benefits nobody. As for damage POM gives you 2 extra GCD casts, so 3 glare 4’s that are only pressed under POM amount to a change in one GCD
WHM- casual feedback- too much focus on damage and not enough healing- completely unchanged from EW

SCH- high end feedback- boring DPS rotation and a loss of identity to SGE- squares response- add in a single oGCD damage option every 2 minutes and give one of its most requested skills (miasma 2) to its counterpart that people are already unhappy is encroaching on its identity. Also giving it a massive buff to recitation nobody asked for and a capstone that doesn’t play into its strengths and completely is at odds with its lore when its lore is already tenuous
Casual feedback- skill conflict gives too high of a skill floor- completely unchanged

AST- high end feedback- high APM is good but it can be a bit unwieldy especially on controller and it’s annoying having to tie the only movement tool we have to maximising burst. Also not as problematic as WHM but also lacks mitigation- squares response- nuke the card system from orbit and give it 4 extra charges of flavoured energy drain. Still doesn’t fix controller problem and mitigation is again tied to long CD of another mitigation
Casual feedback- cards are too confusing to remember- unchanged (if anything it got worse)

SGE- high end feedback- literally zero optimisation potential, its floor is its ceiling, also why do we have so many regens in a shield healer and im getting squashed by SCH in mitigation potential- squares response- here is some damage options you literally cannot optimise around, they are the most rigid way we could add some damage options. Also we heard you wanted pankardia instead of physis, well here is fake pankardia that gives you another regen but doesn’t help your shielding.
Casual feedback- job is poorly explained, skills don’t make a lot of sense and addersting encourages bad play- unchanged


Do you see why we have problems. Our feedback either seems to not get acted on or it gets twisted in weird ways that end up making it worse than nothing. Absolutely nobody who asked for pankardia wanted whatever the hell philosophia is for example. This is why we are tired, our feedback is going nowhere

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I've definitely had some intense back and forths before with some people (Hi, Ren, how you doin?) But in this thread I've been very patient with people and the only time I've said anything even remotely snarky was at people who literally came in guns blazing, or lashed out at me.

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I know I've had my snarky moments, a lot of it because of people being dismissive, elitist, or regurgitating old talking points.

Despite that I at least try to point out where an argument doesn't hold up, point out double-standards, and as long as someone is cordial, or at least just neutral, I try to respond in kind. Doesn't always work, topics like this get heated, but I try to when I can.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

I completely feel you re: the my brain doesn't work as fast part. I relate to it a lot. It makes it harder to process and as a result learn how to manage the chaos of very hard content.

But I think one major problem here is the fact that there is no way to gradually transition into harder content because FF completely lacks any kind of reasonable midcore content.

We can't slowly increase our difficulty step by step to get used to harder gameplay situations and learn at a pace that accomodates us.

You have to go from roulettes you can breeze through most of the time to fights so difficult (for newcomers) and packed with mechanics (sometimes happening at the same time) that it's completely overwhelming.
Roulettes can be cleared in 15 minutes, progging savage takes weeks if I understand it correctly. The gap here is insane.

For hardcore raiders they may be a routine, but if this is unfamiliar to you it takes a considerable amount of time to get used to it.

If something is too hard and too far above your current skill level it's a lot harder to pick it up and can become demoralising real quick. Things are happening so fast, you can't process and track everything all at once and have no time to properly familiarise yourself with your kit, to test its ins and outs.

I really wish they had a better difficulty distribution across their content.
I think this would make it possible to have more complex kits because you could get to know them in gradually more difficult situations without being overwhelmed.

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I also lose concentration from time to time and can't remember which button was responsible for which skill.
im easily overwhelmed but the thing is, and you shouldn't let this discourage you, that as long as you keep playing the game and start stepping out of your comfort zone every now and then, it will get better. All beginnings are hard and sometimes it seems insurmountable, but i still believe that you can do ex trails and savage.
due to my limitations, i always start over when new skills are added and as soon as i understand a mechanic i need a mnemonic for it. for example the limit cut in P2s was "4 and 2, I'm staying with you. 3 and 1, I'm gone." I can't react quickly enough otherwise.
I've accepted that i need longer for a lot of things and went from dungeons to normal raids and then started doing ex-trails. Then came Savage and that's my current limit, but that's okay with me. it took a lot of time and patience and now i do what i enjoy as long as it's fun.
i still get incredibly nervous when new content comes out and/or classes get changed. whether it's a dungeon or new skills, it stresses me out a lot because i know i won't be able to adapt as quickly as i should but over the years it's gotten a little better. i don't panic as easily anymore.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

As Ast I have 159 casts of Fall Malefic in P12S second phase

https://i.imgur.com/qpOB0eN.png

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You must be a really good player. I'm so impressed. I never thought something like this was possible.

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Originally Posted by SamLeens

You must be a really good player. I'm so impressed. I never thought something like this was possible.

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https://i.postimg.cc/rFMf1mT6/IMG-1820.jpg

Here’s an example of a single digit grey AST on P12SP2, it’s still overwhelmingly malefic and combust

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Okay can you provide us some reasons why your job is well designed and why you like it and why you oppose our changes so we can attempt to integrate this feedback into the suggestions we have been providing that are falling on deaf ears

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https://youtu.be/JPA9bKz2meI

Warrior players be like Eric Cartman, and then wonder why people don't like playing with them.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

This is exactly why I use an alt as a display character.

People who stalk your profiles are those who realise they cannot challenge your stance so they stalk your stuff to try and pull authority over you and discredit your argument.

Having people out themselves in that way is one of the best reasons to use a display alt.

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Cant say I agree with this, if you truly believe in something you will put all of yourself on the line and be open to any scrutinization, by hiding behind an alt you have no real agenda and you are showing you are scared of actual criticism.

Im not here to doompost but hiding behind an alt will not help your agenda.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Cant say I agree with this, if you truly believe in something you will put all of yourself on the line and be open to any scrutinization, by hiding behind an alt you have no real agenda and you are showing you are scared of actual criticism.

Im not here to doompost but hiding behind an alt will not help your agenda.

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It doesn’t matter what we do

If we show off our pink ultimate clears people will call us out of touch high end raiders, if we show off we haven’t done savage, done it sporadically or parse poorly in it people will say we are casuals who should just play high end

There is no “right person” to be making this argument in the eyes of people like you

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It doesn’t matter what we do

If we show off our pink ultimate clears people will call us out of touch high end raiders, if we show off we haven’t done savage, done it sporadically or parse poorly in it people will say we are casuals who should just play high end

There is no “right person” to be making this argument in the eyes of people like you

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That doesnt matter and once again you attack me, this is extremely toxic and vile and is back of fourth of constant bickering, there's no real ideas in this thread only one side attacking the other.

You healers attacking anyone who comes in disagreeing with you, you don't try and dicuss, you outright attack and of course there's there trolls coming in here mocking you but instead of ignoring them you engage and attack further.

I tried to make a consensus about 100 pages back now to see if I could get an inline idea of what everyone wants, I got 1 response that was honest and had reasons with what changes they would like to see, everyone else engaged the trolls and continued bickering.

You have all doomed your own post because if I was a dev coming in here trying to see the feedback I would just see players bickering and check out, I honestly dont blame the devs thus far for not acknowledging this.

SE gift to us :rolleyes:
https://i.imgur.com/KcWvtvT.png

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Cant say I agree with this, if you truly believe in something you will put all of yourself on the line and be open to any scrutinization, by hiding behind an alt you have no real agenda and you are showing you are scared of actual criticism.

Im not here to doompost but hiding behind an alt will not help you agenda.

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I'm going to be really honest and up front with you, and not in a confrontational way, just want to talk about my experience.

I am someone who is doing exactly what you are saying. I am also a player who has been pretty critical of mostly tanks, but also healers and some other miscellaneous things SE has done.

Because I have not made any attempts to hide who I am, I have had players send me tells ingame and on discord telling me to kill myself, and worse, because all I do is "criticize the developers".

I don't blame anyone for using alts or taking measures to avoid harassment. This community has proven that the more fanatical types will go after people no problem.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

That doesnt matter and once again you attack me, this is extremely toxic and vile and is back of fourth of constant bickering, there's no real ideas in this thread only one side attacking the other.

You healers attacking anyone who comes in disagreeing with you, you don't try and dicuss, you outright attack and of course there's there trolls coming in here mocking you but instead of ignoring them you engage and attack further.

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I’m not attacking you I’m saying “who is the correct person to be arguing this” in your eyes

People have attacked Gemima for not doing savage, I’ve had my opinion on P10S try to be dismissed because I don’t have 10 logs on Andreas (again like aravell I use an alt for raids), but on the other hand people have also attacked people like Ty or forsaken for being too good at the game to have an opinion on this

Who is allowed to have an opinion on this, our logs shouldn’t matter, we are all healer mains and we are all sick of modern healers

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

I'm going to be really honest and up front with you, and not in a confrontational way, just want to talk about my experience.

I someone who is doing exactly what you are saying. I am also a player who has been pretty critical of mostly tanks, but also healers and some other miscellaneous things SE has done.

Because I have not made any attempts to hide who I am, I have had players send me tells ingame and on discord telling me to kill myself, and worse, because all I do is "criticize the developers".

I don't blame anyone for using alts or taking measures to avoid harassment. This community has proven that the more fanatical types will go after people no problem.

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I understand this can happen but document the messages with screenshots, blacklist the person and send it to SE these people will get their accounts banned and rightfully so.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Cant say I agree with this, if you truly believe in something you will put all of yourself on the line and be open to any scrutinization, by hiding behind an alt you have no real agenda and you are showing you are scared of actual criticism.

Im not here to doompost but hiding behind an alt will not help your agenda.

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What agenda? I'm not playing healers in DT because I'm bored of them, what agenda do I even have?

Also, if you want to show yourself to the world, that's your prerogative, I don't.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

What agenda? I'm not playing healers in DT because I'm bored of them, what agenda do I even have?

Also, if you want to show yourself to the world, that's your prerogative, I don't.

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Thats fine, you are not open to criticism, you are scared of it so you hide behind an alt instead of showing your accomplishments that makes healers boring and are certainly not needed for all content, that's fine I now know for certain this thread isnt a serious one and I will leave you all to it, it got boring reading all the players attacking eachother instead of seeing a real discussion.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Man, come on, don't J Allen Brack me.

Yep, I'll play the "villain" on this topic — I want Cleric Stance back. No caveats, no buts. If the developers suddenly put Cleric Stance right back in the game, exactly as it was in ARR/HW, it would not bother me at all.

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I can't argue with nostalgia, but that's the only real value Cleric Stance had: nostalgia.

Imagine the simplest DPS rotation you can, and it's still more complex. Imagine a 1-2 combo. Imagine a gauge that builds resources not based on time, but on the GCDs pressed. Heck, imagine having Shillelagh from D&D and your auto-attacks becoming 20% of your DPS. Cleric Stance is the bottom of the barrel. I hope it never comes back. Current healers are more complex than past iterations, bury me haha. Strike because you want more, not because you want less.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Thats fine, you are not open to criticism, you are scared of it so you hide behind an alt instead of showing your accomplishments that makes healers boring and are certainly not needed for all content, that's fine I now know for certain this thread isnt a serious one and I will leave you all to it, it got boring reading all the players attacking eachother instead of seeing a real discussion.

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Cool, thanks for playing psychologist for me, now I don't have to pay for a real one.

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Originally Posted by Milkbeard

I can't argue with nostalgia, but that's the only real value Cleric Stance had: nostalgia.

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To each their own, I say.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Thats fine, you are not open to criticism, you are scared of it so you hide behind an alt instead of showing your accomplishments that makes healers boring and are certainly not needed for all content, that's fine I now know for certain this thread isnt a serious one and I will leave you all to it, it got boring reading all the players attacking eachother instead of seeing a real discussion.

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Again can you please tell us what showing our raid logs will add to our stance in this conversation

We have been attacked both ways at being too good and not good enough for this game, what will seeing our true logs do in this sense, if you don’t want to attack us as being too good then our logs are meaningless, if you want to assert we aren’t good enough to be making this argument then why are we also getting attacked for being too good

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

I understand this can happen but document the messages with screenshots, blacklist the person and send it to SE these people will get their accounts banned and rightfully so.

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What do you think I've done? Me and the GMs are on good terms, I assure you. As for discord, well if it's coming from a new account with a newly created email address, there's not much you can do but refuse DMs from all people not on the friends list. Imagine having someone fishing and proding for your other online accounts simply because you weren't happy about the tank reworks, so you can get heckled off platform.

You've seen it. The insults, the joy people will take in deliberately aggravating other people, or going out of their way to misinterpret some pretty well established guidelines. We don't have moderators here to police inflammatory statements. We don't have community leaders who are going to advocate for us, because the "silent majority" will always be larger than us. We don't have frequent communications about the issues we really care about. And we are constantly surrounded by arguments, and accusations.

So, again. I don't blame anyone for not signing themselves up to be screwed with. It's really troubling after awhile. A nihilistic perspective is understandable.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Again can you please tell us what showing our raid logs will add to our stance in this conversation

We have been attacked both ways at being too good and not good enough for this game, what will seeing our true logs do in this sense, if you don’t want to attack us as being too good then our logs are meaningless, if you want to assert we aren’t good enough to be making this argument then why are we also getting attacked for being too good

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I can't say for what others have in mind regarding logs being too bad or too good.
But my personal thoughts from reading what you said is that those few logs I've stumbled across through out this thread has more or less been from statics that know every mechanic.
And we all know, that a group that knows a fight in an out won't take as much damage meaning less opportunities for healers to heal.
So maybe a log from a Party Finder pog group could give a better view when a group isn't coordinated and well oiled.
Give the numbers of how a group with accidents might look like.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I can't say for what others have in mind regarding logs being too bad or too good.
But my personal thoughts from reading what you said is that those few logs I've stumbled across through out this thread has more or less been from statics that know every mechanic.
And we all know, that a group that knows a fight in an out won't take as much damage meaning less opportunities for healers to heal.
So maybe a log from a Party Finder pog group could give a better view when a group isn't cordinated and well oiled.
Give the numbers of how a group with accidents might look like.

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There's not going to be a lot of logs like that in more recent expansions, because if there is a group that has an accident, you don't clear.

The party just instantly dies. You're not even allowed to salvage most encounters. If someone "makes a mistake" in P9S limit cut, how exactly are we going to salvage that pull? That's the first fight. We're not even talking about P10S or P12S.

Sure, we have things like "DeathCOB" as our fringe outlier, but even content outside of savage, things like Criterion or Delubrum Savage make it a point to demand mechanical consistency above all else, because the consequence is a wipe that the healers cannot recover from, not because they don't have the resources, but because the fight mechanics will force death. I'm not promoting zombie'ing through fights, but I am saying there is a reason people are kinda over getting body checked every 2 minutes.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

I'm going to be really honest and up front with you, and not in a confrontational way, just want to talk about my experience.

I am someone who is doing exactly what you are saying. I am also a player who has been pretty critical of mostly tanks, but also healers and some other miscellaneous things SE has done.

Because I have not made any attempts to hide who I am, I have had players send me tells ingame and on discord telling me to kill myself, and worse, because all I do is "criticize the developers".

I don't blame anyone for using alts or taking measures to avoid harassment. This community has proven that the more fanatical types will go after people no problem.

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Which is why I always laugh when people tell me "FFXIV has a great, positive community". No, it does not. It's toxic positivity at best, and it works like a hivemind many times. People are so enamored with the game, very few ever leave the honeymoon phase and will slander you for criticizing the game or the dev team. It's completely absurd.

SE nor the dev team cares about you, they just want your money, it's that simple. Had SE been a private company instead, then they wouldn't need to please shareholders.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

The party just instantly dies. You're not even allowed to salvage most encounters.

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That's also one thing, a lot of the danger evolves around 1-shot mechanics and if too many fail one there's not enough time to recover from it.
If instead a fight have less 1-shit but more heavy hitting attacks instead.
It's been a while since I played any other MMO on a regular basis so can't really come up with any good comparisons.
But in those the bosses mostly hit more frequently and the fights aren't designed to always be foguth in a more or less stationary position like FFXIV boss arenas.

Regardless, maybe it's not the lack of healers to do during downtimes in a fight that's the major issue, but that the fights themselves are designed in such a way that there aren't much for the healer to do.
Bosses hit in a slow fashion, almost each and every hard hitting ability has a several seconds castbar.
The fights leave little for accidents to happen for healers to heal up.

Before we didn't have stuff like Tankbusters adding a visual marker on a player, and many of the boss's skills weren't marked either.


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From my own perspective, a tanks self healing is (or should at least) be a "oh, crap" button for when something hits too hard or missed to pop a defensive, giving a healer some time to top them up again.
But since the fights leave so little to accidents, a tank can easily use those "panic" buttons to sustain themselves.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

So, again. I don't blame anyone for not signing themselves up to be screwed with. It's really troubling after awhile. A nihilistic perspective is understandable.

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I always make sure to have as little of my info out as possible precisely so I don't have to deal with unhinged people who stalk others for simply having an opinion.

All anyone has to do is look at how vicious some people are in this very thread. Would anyone like being on the receiving end of that?

If someone wants to call me a coward who can't accept criticism because I don't want to paint a harassment target on myself, more power to them. I don't care about their opinion though, I care more about my own comfort than what some armchair psychologist on the internet thinks of how I act.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

That's also one thing, a lot of the danger evolves around 1-shot mechanics and if too many fail one there's not enough time to recover from it.
If instead a fight have less 1-shit but more heavy hitting attacks instead.
It's been a while since I played any other MMO on a regular basis so can't really come up with any good comparisons.
But in those the bosses mostly hit more frequently and the fights aren't designed to always be foguth in a more or less stationary position like FFXIV boss arenas.

Regardless, maybe it's not the lack of healers to do during downtimes in a fight that's the major issue, but that the fights themselves are designed in such a way that there aren't much for the healer to do.
Bosses hit in a slow fashion, almost each and every hard hitting ability has a several seconds castbar.
The fights leave little for accidents to happen for healers to heal up.

Before we didn't have stuff like Tankbusters adding a visual marker on a player, and many of the boss's skills weren't marked either.

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This is honestly why something like Barbariccia EX were so well liked, it's probably the most unanimously praised fight in EW, an opinion I share. Rather than relying on debuff overload, or a really precise positioning for every member of the team, Barb was fast, there was always something happening or to plan for, damage was frequent, and one player making a mistake usually did not cascade into an immediate unrecoverable situation. But the underlying mechanics were straightforward to understand, there was no need for a twenty page toolbox or a 15 minute YT video. The fight builds upon itself, and I even think tanks have a solid time in there. There's a lot of good there. I think every role got their time to shine in that fight somehow.

But I will highlight that it's not "too many" people failing a mechanic leading to a wipe. It's one person doing something major, or sometimes minor incorrectly, and the result is the entire party exploding instantly. It's okay to have those things in fights. But when it's every fight, I feel that it starts breaking the trinity somewhat, outside of the more common issues detailed in this thread, because you didn't wipe because "the tank didn't get aggro" or "the dps check was failed" or "the healers were out of MP", you failed because Player 5 was out of position on mechanic sequence 4, or Player 2 didn't read their partner's debuff correctly and did 999999 damage to the group.

I feel that it promotes really frustrating and darwinistic perspectives for progressing through content.

I only read the summary of complaints in the OP so I just wanted to add that the healing interface is also atrocious. There's no built-in click-to-cast options and mouse-over macros function poorly in this game, not queuing casts as expected. So casting heals and buffs (especially as AST to give my party cards) requires individually targeting each person in turn. Just the simple act of "throw heal on tank between DPS casts" requires at least 5 inputs (Glare, target tank, cast heal, retarget boss, Glare) and it's pretty disappointing. I mained healer in WoW but it just feels bland and outdated in FFXIV. It could be so, so, SO much better.

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Originally Posted by Melchan

I only read the summary of complaints in the OP so I just wanted to add that the healing interface is also atrocious. There's no built-in click-to-cast options and mouse-over macros function poorly in this game, not queuing casts as expected. So casting heals and buffs (especially as AST to give my party cards) requires individually targeting each person in turn. Just the simple act of "throw heal on tank between DPS casts" requires at least 5 inputs (Glare, target tank, cast heal, retarget boss, Glare) and it's pretty disappointing. I mained healer in WoW but it just feels bland and outdated in FFXIV. It could be so, so, SO much better.

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This is definitely another thing I'd like to see added, not just mouse-overs, but also ground-targeting abilities be used on single press rather than double-press or click-to-place.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

This is honestly why something like Barbariccia EX were so well liked, it's probably the most unanimously praised fight in EW, an opinion I share. Rather than relying on debuff overload, or a really precise positioning for every member of the team, Barb was fast, there was always something happening or to plan for, damage was frequent, and one player making a mistake usually did not cascade into an immediate unrecoverable situation. But the underlying mechanics were straightforward to understand, there was no need for a twenty page toolbox or a 15 minute YT video. The fight builds upon itself, and I even think tanks have a solid time in there. There's a lot of good there. I think every role got their time to shine in that fight somehow.

But I will highlight that it's not "too many" people failing a mechanic leading to a wipe. It's one person doing something major, or sometimes minor incorrectly, and the result is the entire party exploding instantly. It's okay to have those things in fights. But when it's every fight, I feel that it starts breaking the trinity somewhat, outside of the more common issues detailed in this thread, because you didn't wipe because "the tank didn't get aggro" or "the dps check was failed" or "the healers were out of MP", you failed because Player 5 was out of position on mechanic sequence 4, or Player 2 didn't read their partner's debuff correctly and did 999999 damage to the group.

I feel that it promotes really frustrating and darwinistic perspectives for progressing through content.

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Mm.. a lot of the higher tier fights (I've only done savage pandemonium 1-5 so can't speak for all) really required the group as a whole to know what to do and where to stand, or else it can really crumble fast.
Which is counteractive when I think that a Healers toolkit is designed around a fight where accidents happen.
But since every fight is static with its rotations and mechanics are more or less all marked out, accidents are less likely to happen.
Unless ofc new to a fight and learning said boss patterns.


Edit:

The simplest solution I can think of would be to make that a boss's auto attacks at least would hit for harder.
And that is the bare minimum to give healers something to heal up during a boss fight.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

I feel that it promotes really frustrating and darwinistic perspectives for progressing through content.

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A feeling I absolutely share. It leaves no room for the party to make up for weaker players, either everyone executes mechanics perfectly all the time or you get 0 progression done, let alone actually see enrage.

Just some of my personal responses to the things I've heard since this started. Quite a few of these are redundant with responses already made by people in the thread. I'm not even strawmanning with these. Every single one of these points has been said by someone criticizing #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE. It's quite...uh....astonishing...let's say that...astonishing.

A: Healers are really dumb, therefore they deserve to have the simplest rotation possible.
B: Okay, well you can play any job in this game at any time. So the people who play healers also play DPS and tanks, so we need to logically demand those rotations get dumbed down to match healer.

A: Healers have so many tools and need to have easy rotations because their job is to correct the party's mistakes.
B: Okay. If dungeons are so easy to be done without healers, then you don't really need a healer to correct mistakes. Additionally, in ultimates and savages how are you supposed to "fix people's mistakes" when 80% of mistakes just flat out cause a wipe. They even disabled healer res in Criterion, and res is entirely disabled from Criterion (savage).

A: If you want an engaging healer experience then go do Ultimate. (Yikes, this is also straight from Yoshi-P....)
B: I should not have to do the literal hardest content in the game to enjoy a role. A role should be enjoyable at all difficulties to a high degree. And even then, by striking aren't healers doing exactly what you're telling them to do? Hecking off because they don't find certain content engaging?

A: I'm just going to use trusts then, lol (Zepla literally said this)
B: Okay, have fun queuing your roulettes with trusts I guess?

A: Dungeons aren't designed to be fun, they are designed to be easy.
B: Okay that's just another reason not to queue into dungeons as healer? It's kinda the point that it's boring and too easy? ???

A: (In response to the Xeno video of the first dungeon getting cleared during the media tour with no healer) It's only the first dungeon of the expansion that was cleared without healers. It's supposed to be easy.
B: Uh. Tower of Zot and Holminster Switch are easily the two hardest leveling dungeons for trash pulls in their respective expansions.

A: Your healer strike will never work! It'll not even make an impact!
B: Okay. Still not queuing for your roulettes, because it sucks.

A: Your healer strike is just disruptive and spiteful towards people who just want to run content!
B: But I thought....

If i was a healer main i wouldn't just stop at ''not queuing as healer''
I would try to maximise what little individual impact i can by actively queuing and pffing dps. And urging others to do so too.
Which by the way, is the perfect time for it. Because we're in a double dps job drop expansion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

If i was a healer main i wouldn't just stop at ''not queuing as healer''
I would try to maximise what little individual impact i can by actively queuing and pffing dps. And urging others to do so too.
Which by the way, is the perfect time for it. Because we're in a double dps job drop expansion.

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Personally I have little worry about that this Strike will have much of an impact when it comes to queues.
There are more players who play healer than years ago, when a DPS queue could last for 30min (if lucky) up to an hour or more.
At most I believe that's where we gonna be, if anything.
And as an old geezer, I've lived through those times already, I can survive another recap.
Heck, I still get a little surprised daily when I queue as a DPS and I only have to wait for a couple of seconds up to 5 minutes on avarage.
So a couple of hunders or thousands of healers switching due to the Strike, over a bunch of servers sharing a datashard queue system, I'm not worrying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

This is honestly why something like Barbariccia EX were so well liked, it's probably the most unanimously praised fight in EW, an opinion I share. Rather than relying on debuff overload, or a really precise positioning for every member of the team, Barb was fast, there was always something happening or to plan for, damage was frequent, and one player making a mistake usually did not cascade into an immediate unrecoverable situation. But the underlying mechanics were straightforward to understand, there was no need for a twenty page toolbox or a 15 minute YT video. The fight builds upon itself, and I even think tanks have a solid time in there. There's a lot of good there. I think every role got their time to shine in that fight somehow.

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While tanks do get some stuff to do in Barbariccia EX, I do find it disappointing that the fight only has 2 tankbusters and a couple tank proxy markers. All the tank damage is far apart enough that you can kitchen sink them. You can even kitchen sink the tank stack marker if you have it as OT and not get punished for it. She does have parts where the mechanics are easier done if you move her though, so there's that.

I personally think it's a more enjoyable fight on healer than any other role though.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Personally I have little to worry about that this Strike will have much of an impact when it comes to queues.
There are more players who play healer than years ago, when a DPS queue could last for 30min (if lucky) up to an hour or more.
At most I believe that's where we gonna be, if anything.
And as an old geezer, I've lived through those times already, I can survive another recap.

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I'm affraid this strike won't really accomplish much, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't try.
People are suuuuuuper self centered and don't care about the gameplay experience of others. So their initial response to this strike is ridicule and apathy.
Supports (Healers moreso than tanks) are largely being relegated to background npcs with unengaging gameplay loops. This needs to change.
We're about to enter a new expansion and these concerns are just shoved to the next expansion. People don't want to wait 3 years to enjoy the game again.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Mm.. a lot of the higher tier fights (I've only done savage pandemonium 1-5 so can't speak for all) really required the group as a whole to know what to do and where to stand, or else it can really crumble fast.
Which is counteractive when I think that a Healers toolkit is designed around a fight where accidents happen.
But since every fight is static with its rotations and mechanics are more or less all marked out, accidents are less likely to happen.
Unless ofc new to a fight and learning said boss patterns.


Edit:

The simplest solution I can think of would be to make that a boss's auto attacks at least would hit for harder.
And that is the bare minimum to give healers something to heal up during a boss fight.

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I'm glad you are receptive to the statements I'm providing.

This whole situation is based on a fundamental mismatch between the toolkits of the support jobs and the encounter design itself.

If the fights are static, and the support kits are also static, I think it can cause players to become bored very quickly, because there is no variance, and further more, there is not allowed to be any variance, as that usually leads to a wipe via said body check.

If the fights are going to be mechanic puzzles, with no room to salvage mistakes, players who have "solved" all the puzzles should still be allowed to have fun. I think we have gone way too far into the "spreadsheet meta" of fights, and I support that statement with the increasing frequency of situations where a player will know "i stand here for X mechanic" but doesn't actually understand how said mechanic works because it is SO fixed and inflexible. When healers (and tanks, but we're in the healer thread) have learned everything, we end up hitting a threshold of performance where we can't improve any further outside filler damage, because the game has removed aspects of the role that could promote a more impressive showcase of skill/crisis management/job knowledge.

For example, tanks nowadays specialize in helping a single member mitigate damage to an sizable extent. Oh no! Our Dragoon is being attacked by a targeted, unavoidable attack that will drop them to such low HP they will die to the next raidwide! (Alexander 12 or Omega 7 prey marker for example) Tanks should team up and help that person.

That's not damage, that's not a rotation, that's tanks doing something unique and interacting with the party in a way that only tanks can do. There's not enough of that right now. Instead we just dump all our cooldowns on the telegraphed buster and that's that. Make sure everything is ready for 2 minute burst by the way.
I think that some knowledgeable healers feel that their role is under attack from all directions right now. Tanks heal too much. Bosses don't hurt enough. Everything is a mitigation check. Anytime someone makes a mistake, we have to reset or in situations where mistakes are allowed, healers have significantly less agency and impact, with a gameplay loop that doesn't support the toolkit that has been provided. And there are fewer mechanics outside of fixed stack markers or "set HP to 1" that are designed for healers specifically as of late. What happened to those Shinryu heads that you had to heal to kill? Why aren't we getting more stuff like Fountain of Fire from Pandemonium 3? That was cool!

Are you a party of tanks, healers, and DPS fighting a boss? Or are you just eight players doing synchronized swimming with flashy lighting effects?

If something becomes significantly less fun the better you are at it, or the better your group is, I don't think that is healthy design. I feel that people will just become ambivalent, or worse, really bitter. And well, here we are.