Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

How about: After you clear an instance, you receive a report that says:
Your performance compared to an average of all other players in this expansion of the same level, job, and item level is DPS: 65%, Heals: 90%, ??: ??%
Of course, SE, or your game client would have to record everyone's performance to calculate the overall average, and yours for comparison. There would be no need to store everyone's individual data forever.
At least, this would let players know how they're doing, without the opportunity use it against others.

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See, personalised and relativistic results would in theory work. But what works in theory and what becomes a reality of the systems are 2 separate things. e.g., people would request the data or information regardless of whether it is made readily and publicly available to other players.

Even then, unless SE would develop a system that competes equally, if not had additional features on top of the traditional parsing, and 2 certain other websites that allow players to gauge their performance then it would be fairly meaningless, bar giving console players some form of a seat at the table. But beyond that? Players would still continue to use third-party tools because they would exceed the features that SE would be willing to natively support.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

See, personalised and relativistic results would in theory work. But what works in theory and what becomes a reality of the systems are 2 separate things. e.g., people would request the data or information regardless of whether it is made readily and publicly available to other players.

Even then, unless SE would develop a system that competes equally, if not had additional features on top of the traditional parsing, and 2 certain other websites that allow players to gauge their performance then it would be fairly meaningless, bar giving console players some form of a seat at the table. But beyond that? Players would still continue to use third-party tools because they would exceed the features that SE would be willing to natively support.

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I mean as long as the logs vanish after you leave the duty, it should cut down on "show pic or kick" idiocy. Sure you'll still get the rando moron who demands it, but I don't really see this becoming all that rampant with the restrictions we've set in place here.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Both arguments are the same though. At that point you might as well cut out the middle man of a website and just have some sort of yardstick to see your performance in game. If it's a non issue then why are so many against it? If certain people are going to "harass" you for dps numbers then they will do it with or without an in game tool, at this point you are punishing people who want a tool to see their dps in game because the "bad guys" will use it for nefarious purposes. Sounds like another discussion that has been done to death. I gave up on that one as well, who am I to push back against the will of the masses? lol

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That's one of my main points here. It's so hard for me to argue against a good tool because a few people will misuse it. It just doesn't make sense to me to limit a good thing because of a few bad apples that are going to be bad apples no matter what you do. Especially if we shift the goalposts of the original thread to change it so that parsing tools are only in content where they are relevant (savage/extreme/ultimate).

People saying the current system is fine are off base imo. At the very least, a personal meter should exist that gives you an impression of how you're doing relative to other players of the same job. Since the developers have gone on record issuing a zero tolerance policy for third party tools, saying "the option to measure your own damage exists" when "the option" is a third party tool really doesn't cut it. I don't even have anything against third party stuff, since a lot of it solves problems SE hasn't even acknowledged in a decade, but they can't have it both ways. They can't be like "no third party," but also "the option exists." Stop being lazy and giving this bullshit wink to your players and just let them measure their own skill in game so they know how they're doing. For example, when I hopped off of healing and began playing MCH as my first dps, I was making a huge mistake in the heat blast phase that I wasn't even aware of until someone I knew, who trusted me not to go apeshit and report them, told me "hey, you're underperforming and you need to be doing X" and I changed how I played because of that. Everything else in the game had led me to the false belief that I was doing just fine, but the reality was I'd been carried by people who knew what they were doing and were probably too scared to just tell me to play better.

I'll bring it up again: PvP gets a scoreboard at the end of every round that tells you how much damage you did at the end, and everyone can see everyone else's numbers. People continue to queue up for pvp without letting this stop them. There's no reason to not have a really basic similar scoreboard in pve. It lets individuals know if they could stand to do something differently, because it'll show their damage compared to others in the round. It also provides a legitimate objective in game basis for others to give helpful criticism without jeopardizing their whole account through tacit admission of third party tool use. And all of this is to say nothing of console players who will never have access to these third party tools for themselves, and could benefit from an in game system that at least tells them how they're doing. XIV does a lot of things well, but one thing it does poorly is teaching DPS how to play well, and correcting their poor playstyles. I play casually and I don't even bother with roulettes often, but when I heal them I'll get the slowest runs you've ever seen and when friends who went with me show me the logs, there are damage dealers doing less damage than I am as a WHM just spamming Glare, and it's not because they're dumb or something; it's because they're just making the wrong moves and have no idea because the game never stops them and says "hey, you shouldn't be using your ice spells this often," or "hey, you shouldn't be spamming your melee combo and nothing else as a rdm," or "hey, stop using bioblaster on a single target" and it straight up dissuades other players from telling them too.

Either give people in game ways to evaluate themselves, or relax restrictions on what we're allowed to say to each other in duties so I don't have to tiptoe around the embarrassing act of telling a level 90 tank to use his AoE in trash. And actually show people who get gaol'd, what they got gaol'd for. Jesus christ, how are we supposed to "never do it again" if we don't even know what IT is. This game's moderation policy is so goddamned stupid it's unreal, makes me not even want to queue up unless I have a full group to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

I mean as long as the logs vanish after you leave the duty, it should cut down on "show pic or kick" idiocy. Sure you'll still get the rando moron who demands it, but I don't really see this becoming all that rampant with the restrictions we've set in place here.

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If they 'vanish' after you leave the duty, then we still bump into the same conundrum in that... - They've tried to create a system that effectively tries to curb down on third-party implementations, which it won't just due to limited functionality and not having the same level of 'assessment'

If it's just a parser with limited functionality and interpretation behind the results, then people will just continue to seek alternative solutions to it.

That being said, I wouldn't underestimate the levels of idiocy that people attempt to resort to. Granted, I wouldn't expect this behavior to really be of a majority, but these negative outliers will always leave a poor stigma behind it. People will always have a stronger attachment to these outliers than they do to positive or neutral ones.

It's pretty much why parsing in general gets the reception it does - Most people simply don't care for it, will use it in their own bubble, and enjoy the chance to improve their gameplay, but you will always have a louder minority, and these I would argue; speak more volumes than a silent majority when it comes to impressions and stigma.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

/snip

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Just wanted to say there is already a method of determining how you're doing compared to others in your class. It's called the Enmity Meter right beside your name. You're ranked A - however many people there are with a bar showing if your enmity is increasing or decreasing. If your number is above those in the same class then congrats, you're good.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Just wanted to say there is already a method of determining how you're doing compared to others in your class. It's called the Enmity Meter right beside your name. You're ranked A - however many people there are with a bar showing if your enmity is increasing or decreasing. If your number is above those in the same class then congrats, you're good.

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Being better than another one in your team who could play really poorly doesn't mean anything. And the reverse is true, you could play incredibly well and still be dead last in enmity if you're in a good group.
Enmity is also completely useless as a DPS measuring tool if you play healer or tank.
Also, how often are you matched with a player with the same job as yours? In any serious content, you won't ever.
And if by "class" you mean "role", it has no point either. Any MCH is gonna do better in enmity than a DNC, even though the DNC could be contributing much more DPS to the team.

Did y'all need damage parsers for literally any of the other FF series that were on a Nintendo, or SNES or Playstation 1? Lort y'all would have suffered - this community has become so handicapped by add ones its sad.

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Originally Posted by Saranade

Did y'all need damage parsers for literally any of the other FF series that were on a Nintendo, or SNES or Playstation 1? Lort y'all would have suffered - this community has become so handicapped by add ones its sad.

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The hell kind of question is this?

First and foremost, there's a difference between your FF5 on the GBA and a team numbers game.
Secondly, yes, even in those platforms you had people minmax and figure out the formulas to optimize the game and figure stuff out. The FFWiki even used to have (as far as I can remember at least) the AI script for each individual FF6 enemy.
And finally, if finding out number losses and burst windows, as well as overall performance helps people not only improve on a TEAM GAME but also helps the dev team figure out what needs to be tuned, is such an outlandish thing for you, then boy do I have a few stories to tell you. Starting with the reason why PLD and WAR got buffed due to apparently not doing too hot in P8S.

If you need to ask this, I question who really needs the handicap...

...oh, you're a troll? Eh, leaving it here for future eggheads.

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Originally Posted by Saranade

Did y'all need damage parsers for literally any of the other FF series that were on a Nintendo, or SNES or Playstation 1? Lort y'all would have suffered - this community has become so handicapped by add ones its sad.

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Suffered what? Final Fantasy gameplay has always been braindead. A game where you simply brute force through the entirety of it. There was never any kind of strategy and need for buffing, debuffing like Megaten or even Dragon Quest. It's always been piss easy, so this is the only game with any kind of difficulty.

sounds like someone who never did any endgame in any FF series without a gameshark or something. Let me bust out my tiny violin for all you "ThIrD PaRtY wE NeEd It" folks.