VIERA AND HROTHGAR COMPLAINT MEGATHREAD

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

They better have fixed a lot of stuff with Hrothgar and released female Hrothgar with 7.0, else they're going to see a LOT of outrage. I think everybody in the playerbase would call them out on it if we don't see female Hrothgar, since we'd have been without our other gender for 3 expansions now.

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I'm not saying this is the right perspective but to be perfectly frank Hrothgar is not a popular race and I don't think the females are going to be significantly more popular. There will certainly be outrage, but 70% of this game's playerbase uses the same race (fem Miqo) and most don't give much thought to the woes of Hrothgar or even Viera. Again, I am not saying this is MY perspective but most of my friends didn't even know Hrothgar couldn't use all their racial hairstyles or even that they originally had to use a fantasia to change even minimal features of their character. People just don't know as much as you might think, and on top of that they don't really care to find out.

All this said, I'm sure female Hrothgar will launch in 7.0 and we will get a trailer at fanfest along with the first trailer reveal for the expansion. They aren't going to say anything beforehand. They never do.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

They better have fixed a lot of stuff with Hrothgar and released female Hrothgar with 7.0, else they're going to see a LOT of outrage. I think everybody in the playerbase would call them out on it if we don't see female Hrothgar, since we'd have been without our other gender for 3 expansions now.

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There's basically going to be not major updates to either race, the other poster is high on copium that SE actually cares about a race they have spent basically no time in the last 4 years giving updates to. 7.0 being the fix for both races is only the popular narrative now because it used to be 6.0 was going to be the patch to fix viera and hroths. Look how that turned out, majority of AF headgear unusable, majority of raid headgear unusable, majority of reward headgear unusable, a handful of 5-6 year old headgears everyone else is done with. Don't expect much with 7.0. It'll hurt less when SE underdelivers again and leaves these races as feature incomplete for the next 2+ years.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I think everybody in the playerbase would call them out on it if we don't see female Hrothgar, since we'd have been without our other gender for 3 expansions now.

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Uh, I think you have too much faith in the average playerbase. Unless female Hrothgars are sexy, most people simply aren't going to care. That said, we'll have to see, I don't see 7.0 as some magic fix to all the game's issues. In fact, I'm expecting a much more toned down reset of sorts. Whether or not female Hrothgars are part of it remains to be seen. Here's hoping though.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

There's basically going to be not major updates to either race, the other poster is high on copium that SE actually cares about a race they have spent basically no time in the last 4 years giving updates to. 7.0 being the fix for both races is only the popular narrative now because it used to be 6.0 was going to be the patch to fix viera and hroths. Look how that turned out, majority of AF headgear unusable, majority of raid headgear unusable, majority of reward headgear unusable, a handful of 5-6 year old headgears everyone else is done with. Don't expect much with 7.0. It'll hurt less when SE underdelivers again and leaves these races as feature incomplete for the next 2+ years.

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They update them more than every other race every major patch, so yes, I see no reason why that won't continue. There is a clear trend and it hasn't been interrupted by anything so far. I am not on copium of any kind. I watched almost everything I wanted for my character get added over the course of this expansion. Other people, however, are on serious Doomium and that is just as bad if not worse.

I think my satisfaction does rely a lot on the fact that I don't give half a heck about hats. Headgear is not the be-all-end-all for me. If it was I wouldn't be playing Viera, lmao.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

They update them more than every other race every major patch, so yes, I see no reason why that won't continue. There is a clear trend and it hasn't been interrupted by anything so far. I am not on copium of any kind. I watched almost everything I wanted for my character get added over the course of this expansion. Other people, however, are on serious Doomium and that is just as bad if not worse.

I think my satisfaction does rely a lot on the fact that I don't give half a heck about hats. Headgear is not the be-all-end-all for me. If it was I wouldn't be playing Viera, lmao.

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Yeah I get taht from the fact you show up in every thread giving feedback about lack of headgear or features on viera just to tell everyone else to shut up and praise SE for doing less than the bare minimum to update the races they made.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Yeah I get taht from the fact you show up in every thread giving feedback about lack of headgear or features on viera just to tell everyone else to shut up and praise SE for doing less than the bare minimum to update the races they made.

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If this is what you read from anything I said I don't know what to say. I have never once told anybody to "shut up". Never, ever.

What I (and Iscah, clearly) try to do is maintain facts vs. fiction. Someone needs to come in and remind everybody that their versions of events are not always accurate. There are soooo many inaccuracies people try to push as reality that conversations become circle-jerks.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

If this is what you read from anything I said I don't know what to say.

What I (and Iscah, clearly) try to do is maintain facts vs. fiction. Someone needs to come in and remind everybody that their versions of events are not always accurate.

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What you both do is come in and tell people upset about a lack of features that they're entitled for expecting features that are standard on every other class and have been provided in days or weeks by modders. Just running PR and shilling for SE for free. Half of the people doing this don't even play viera, or claim that they totally have one on their alt.
What you're doing is hugboxing and trying to shut out valid criticism because it doesn't make you feel all warm and fuzzy when someoen criticizes Yoshi-P or the developers in front of you. It adds nothing to keep coming into threads giving valid criticism and telling people to shut up and that "it'll all be fixed in 7.0 just wait".

New hair is horrible imo, but Good for those that like it :)

Very bummed we didn't get the OG 8 hairs unlocked for all faces tho, as that was what they jebaited us with

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

What you both do is come in and tell people upset about a lack of features that they're entitled for expecting features that are standard on every other class and have been provided in days or weeks by modders. Just running PR and shilling for SE for free. Half of the people doing this don't even play viera, or claim that they totally have one on their alt.
What you're doing is hugboxing and trying to shut out valid criticism because it doesn't make you feel all warm and fuzzy when someoen criticizes Yoshi-P or the developers in front of you. It adds nothing to keep coming into threads giving valid criticism and telling people to shut up and that "it'll all be fixed in 7.0 just wait".

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I've never said any of this so whatever you're posting here has to be about somebody else. You're completely fabcricating a boogeyman. I've never mentioned YoshiP, I've never told anybody to shut up, I've never told anybody to stop criticizing. This is all completely made up. I don't care at all if you criticize - criticize away, but please stick to facts. We do not know what will come in 7.0 (and yes, it absolutely will not be the cure-all to end all problems with the game.) All I do is try to clarify inaccuracies. "They'll never update these races" is a pretty disingenuous thing to say when they've been updating them all expansion.

For the record I expressed my disappointment 2 hours ago that a few hairstyles I wanted were not added in this patch. I am also disappointed that updates have felt few and far between whether there is a clear pattern or not. I do not believe it has to be 100% one way or the other.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

What you both do [...]. Half of the people doing this don't even play viera, or claim that they totally have one on their alt.

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So if you're only accusing two people then that makes me the "half"? I certainly do have a Viera alt. You can see I have both characters registered on my EC profile.

I do hope female Hrothgar get added in 7.0. And I am very disappointed in the people who seem to be against it/put it into question due to "popularity" a thing Yoshi himself said is not a priority in regards to this race. It does make you wonder if they would be singing the same tune if they were in our shoes.
Another thing, people like to talk about how popular Hrothgar are and completley ignore the fact that Hrothgar are more popular then both genders for Roegadin and female Elezen. So if Hrothgar should not get any updates or qol then should the same treatment be given to the least popular races too? In my opinion no, this whole idea should be out of the question, period.
As the last thing. You don't know how popular female Hrothgar will be. Just like people didn't know how popular male Viera will be. If SE does a good job with their design, they will be popular, if not then they won't. But I am extremely tired of this popularity bs.
If female Hrothgar do not get added in 7.0 there will be an outrage. Cause as much as people like to think we are on our own, other players know and will stand with us in need. See 6.1 Hrothgar ears for reference.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

I do hope female Hrothgar get added in 7.0. And I am very disappointed in the people who seem to be against it/put it into question due to "popularity" a thing Yoshi himself said is not a priority in regards to this race. It does make you wonder if they would be singing the same tune if they were in our shoes.
Another thing, people like to talk about how popular Hrothgar are and completley ignore the fact that Hrothgar are more popular then both genders for Roegadin and female Elezen. So if Hrothgar should not get any updates or qol then should the same treatment be given to the least popular races too? In my opinion no, this whole idea should be out of the question, period.
As the last thing. You don't know how popular female Hrothgar will be. Just like people didn't know how popular male Viera will be. If SE does a good job with their design, they will be popular, if not then they won't. But I am extremely tired of this popularity bs.
If female Hrothgar do not get added in 7.0 there will be an outrage. Cause as much as people like to think we are on our own, other players know and will stand with us in need. See 6.1 Hrothgar ears for reference.

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The popularity is also a chicken/egg thing
most new gear and glams are added for female miqo/female aura and designed to look good with them, so people play them, so more gets designed for them, etc.
other races would be more popoular if certain issues with the races were fixed and more gear was designed that looked good on them instead of the usual miqo/hyur/aura

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

The popularity is also a chicken/egg thing
most new gear and glams are added for female miqo/female aura and designed to look good with them, so people play them, so more gets designed for them, etc.

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No they aren't lol. They are made for hyur first and foremost, and slapped on miqo'te, regardless of them being the most played.

After what a total slap in the face this patch is for hrothgar Im hoping no femgar wanters out there have any earnest belief in the devs.
Hrothgar npcs have had unlocked hair since 5.25 in gangos.
Its going on 3 years and we, the paying player, do not have that. The most basic, create your character feature, we dont have.
Not to mention viera got the only masculine hair from bozja, whereas we got two girlygirl pigtails that look abudantly terrible on a 7ft tall he-man race. Its the ONLY hair I wanted them to give us all of shb but god forbid.
We should not, for any reason, have hope 7.0 will improve our customization, much less headgear slot situation, like how many chances can we give the devs? Honestly. Itd be one thing if 6.5 got us up to snuff with viera but Im sure the effort would cause square to sink into the bowels of the earth.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

No they aren't lol. They are made for hyur first and foremost, and slapped on miqo'te, regardless of them being the most played.

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I was about to say this, but you beat me to it! But yes, everything is fitted for Hyur and then slightly adjusted for every race.

https://i.imgur.com/FZlEaW1.png

not bad

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

I do hope female Hrothgar get added in 7.0. And I am very disappointed in the people who seem to be against it/put it into question due to "popularity" a thing Yoshi himself said is not a priority in regards to this race. It does make you wonder if they would be singing the same tune if they were in our shoes.
Another thing, people like to talk about how popular Hrothgar are and completley ignore the fact that Hrothgar are more popular then both genders for Roegadin and female Elezen. So if Hrothgar should not get any updates or qol then should the same treatment be given to the least popular races too? In my opinion no, this whole idea should be out of the question, period.
As the last thing. You don't know how popular female Hrothgar will be. Just like people didn't know how popular male Viera will be. If SE does a good job with their design, they will be popular, if not then they won't. But I am extremely tired of this popularity bs.
If female Hrothgar do not get added in 7.0 there will be an outrage. Cause as much as people like to think we are on our own, other players know and will stand with us in need. See 6.1 Hrothgar ears for reference.

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I will clarify that nobody said female Hroths wouldn't be implemented in 7.0 as a result of popularity or anything else. What was vetoed as the suggestion that the overall community would be outraged if they were not released in 7.0. I think it is often gravely overestimated just how much the average player even knows about the problems plaguing Hrothgar and Viera. The frequently online playerbase, yeah. Hrothgar/Viera players, of course, but most people who play this game are neither.

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Originally Posted by XianRo

Not to mention viera got the only masculine hair from bozja, whereas we got two girlygirl pigtails that look abudantly terrible on a 7ft tall he-man race. Its the ONLY hair I wanted them to give us all of shb but god forbid.

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It's. A. Process.

Every single hairstyle that has been fixed for Viera goes to Hrothgar in the same order.

Viera got Wind Caller this patch so you can have it next patch.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's. A. Process.

Every single hairstyle that has been fixed for Viera goes to Hrothgar in the same order.

Viera got Wind Caller this patch so you can have it next patch.

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Unfortunately Windcaller will be in two patches, not one (7.0, probably). Hrothgar have been two patches behind Viera since the Earpocalypse which was a detail that was revealed when they promised to address the problem (which yes, they created by half-assing the Hrothgar hair port to begin with.) They expressed they would fix it but that it would mean slower updates which turned out to mean a one patch delay would become a two patch delay. It is a long time to wait but at least everybody knows when it should be out now barring they don't completely change the update schedule between now and 7.0.

All this said, yeah, it's a process. As much as many of us wish we could get our desired styles in order from most to least wanted that list is probably very different for everybody. We get what we get when we get it. Really, it is just a matter of time before both of these races are completely caught up with all the other races and we find new things to complain about vehemently (headgear?)

Glad we got new hairstyles, but why do female Viera always end up with the stiff/ridgid variant of each hairstyles ? Samsonian locks / great lengths don't move and it's truly disappointing.

It's a shame the "hair from other face" thing didn't end up being true. :(

I assume it's still coming, but it's sad that it wasn't in 6.4.

I actually like the new hairstyles given to Hroths, I can't believe they made Grynewaht's hair look good.... but... because it has to be said, the gap between their forehead and the hairstyle hairline is rather noticeable, making it obvious that they just slap a "wig" over a bald Hroth and call it a day. Would it really take more than a day to make sure the hairstyles actually fit onto their head...?

Literally clawing my way out of hell to bitch that bunny thinks get freaking Wind Caller before hroths do?! S-seriosly?

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Originally Posted by BiddyBatnana

Glad we got new hairstyles, but why do female Viera always end up with the stiff/ridgid variant of each hairstyles ? Samsonian locks / great lengths don't move and it's truly disappointing.

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Aren't those fairly stiff on all races – is it definitely worse or have you not looked at others? Are they actually stiffer on female Viera specifically (not male Viera, not Hrothgar) or is there something about the new races compared to the old ones?

Not trying to disprove it anything, but being specific to female Viera seems odd. (Or is this what they were cryptically referring to about fixing issues with male Viera that the female models had?)

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Originally Posted by Ren_frost

Literally clawing my way out of hell to bitch that bunny thinks get freaking Wind Caller before hroths do?! S-seriosly?

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Every hairstyle you want will go to Viera first because they are working in batches. If you want it, you should be hoping that Viera get it sooner rather than later, because that means it's on its way to you sooner.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Every hairstyle you want will go to Viera first because they are working in batches. If you want it, you should be hoping that Viera get it sooner rather than later, because that means it's on its way to you sooner.

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Or they could stop giving Viera something for one patch, give Hrothgar all the hair to CATCH THEM UP with Viera, and THEN unlock them for both at the same time. Because I'm sorry, Viera should not be getting the preferential treatment, they already got their missing gender, they can wait for hair. Yes, I'm still pissed about Viera holding Hrothgar back, AND I WILL BE FOREVER.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Or they could stop giving Viera something for one patch, give Hrothgar all the hair to CATCH THEM UP with Viera, and THEN unlock them for both at the same time. Because I'm sorry, Viera should not be getting the preferential treatment, they already got their missing gender, they can wait for hair. Yes, I'm still pissed about Viera holding Hrothgar back, AND I WILL BE FOREVER.

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it's not preferential treatment, more people play viera than hrothgar because hrothgar appeals to a very very specific niche vs viera which have a much broader appeal. if more people played hrothgar and hrothgar was more popular then you can rest assured that they'd be getting the better deal. (it also helps that viera heads are easier to work with compared to the funny shaped hrothgar heads)

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

it's not preferential treatment, more people play viera than hrothgar because hrothgar appeals to a very very specific niche vs viera which have a much broader appeal. if more people played hrothgar and hrothgar was more popular then you can rest assured that they'd be getting the better deal. (it also helps that viera heads are easier to work with compared to the funny shaped hrothgar heads)

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You wrote all that just to agree with me. Because you just said Hrothgar isn't getting anything because it's not that popular, meaning Viera is getting more because it is. Thus, preferential treatment.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Or they could stop giving Viera something for one patch, give Hrothgar all the hair to CATCH THEM UP with Viera, and THEN unlock them for both at the same time. Because I'm sorry, Viera should not be getting the preferential treatment, they already got their missing gender, they can wait for hair. Yes, I'm still pissed about Viera holding Hrothgar back, AND I WILL BE FOREVER.

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I remember when patch 6.1 notes said "new hairstyles for hrothgar" and despite it saying "and viera" in the jp text every viera online lost their minds even though the only thing hrothgar would be getting would be the hairs they already had at the top of endwalker.
Hrothgar SHOULD get caught up to viera before ew ends but god knows people will see like "12 new styles for hrothgar" and think viera were getting screwed over like no theyre finally doing their job correctly and not leaving hrothgar out til 7.55

I've said it before, I'll say it again. A few of the Hrothgar mains around here need to reflect and stop fabricating boogeymen out of the Viera players (be they mains or alts) here. Everybody wants every single one of us to get every hair. There is no "All Viera players reacted this way" to anything because Viera players aren't a singular hivemind of drones. A lot of us have said before that we would be fine with SE taking a break for a patch or two in order to catch Viera up with Hrothgar, but approximately 5 Viera players in an English forum for a Japanese video game that nobody relevant pokes one eyeball in possess the capability to make that decision. Saying something doesn't make it happen which means saying it is the most you can expect from any of us and should be worth the same weight. Viera players did not ask to be 2 patches ahead of Hrothgar, that is just how the devs chose to go about things somewhere higher up in their scheduling when they appointed people in charge of porting new hairstyles.

Not everything needs to be about popularity or one race holding the other back. I think what is being constantly and fundamentally ignored is that porting hairstyles to Hrothgar and creating the female model is more work than the same jobs for Viera. Hrothgar are unique even by the XIV's standards of racial characters while Viera are just another version of the same - a Hyur-shape with animal characteristics. It is reasonable that they chose to tackle the easier job first so they could give players something tangible while they work to develop updates for Hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

It is reasonable that they chose to tackle the easier job first so they could give players something tangible while they work to develop updates for Hrothgar.

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While I agree with the overall statement, I think it's reasonable this last part is what gets people upset because now we know they haven't been working on developing Hrothgar because "tHeY DidN't kNoW" Hrothgar wanted, let alone expected the same treatment Viera would be getting, so the past 3 years and several months was just us waiting like fools for something that was never going to happen until we made a tantrum about it on social media and forced the devs to reschedule. Some communication could've saved a lot of drama.

Let’s not turn on eachother, SE is at fault for not caring or paying enough attention to what we actually want, not the players who are just waiting for years for a crumb of hair and hat.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

It is reasonable that they chose to tackle the easier job first so they could give players something tangible while they work to develop updates for Hrothgar.

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You know the second you made a comment like this, it blew out any sense you were making, and only served to enrage people. Me being one of them. THEY CAN PUT IN THE DAMNED WORK IF THEY DON'T TOUCH VIERA FOR A PATCH OR TWO.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

Let’s not turn on eachother, SE is at fault for not caring or paying enough attention to what we actually want, not the players who are just waiting for years for a crumb of hair and hat.

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https://media.tenor.com/Q-ytQFoITa8A...ouknow-you.gif

People have a right to be upset regardless of how much some personally think they shouldn't. Hrothgar are 2 patches behind Viera. There is no telling that Hrothgar will get further updates after Viera get all of theirs.
I just wish SE would take some time to get us up to speed so this worry wouldn't be there. But this will likely fall on deaf ears. 6.4 is already here, nothing we say will change what we already got.

Patiently waiting for 6.5 I guess...

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

There is no telling that Hrothgar will get further updates after Viera get all of theirs.

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This sort of statement feels like deliberate "here's a worst-case imagined scenario, now let me complain as if that's what SE is doing".

I see no reason at all for them to suddenly stop the ongoing pattern of giving each batch of hairstyles first to Viera and then later to Hrothgar.

Complain about it if and when they do it, but it's not something that should be assumed will happen.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I actually like the new hairstyles given to Hroths, I can't believe they made Grynewaht's hair look good.... but... because it has to be said, the gap between their forehead and the hairstyle hairline is rather noticeable, making it obvious that they just slap a "wig" over a bald Hroth and call it a day. Would it really take more than a day to make sure the hairstyles actually fit onto their head...?

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Any time spent is too much time spent, apparently. :)

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

People have a right to be upset regardless of how much some personally think they shouldn't. Hrothgar are 2 patches behind Viera. There is no telling that Hrothgar will get further updates after Viera get all of theirs.
I just wish SE would take some time to get us up to speed so this worry wouldn't be there. But this will likely fall on deaf ears. 6.4 is already here, nothing we say will change what we already got.

Patiently waiting for 6.5 I guess...

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Nobody told anybody not to be upset and it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. I am personally just sick of Viera constantly being presented as the ultimate scapegoat for why Hrothgar can't have nice things. I don't know how many times I have to reiterate that I have always been fine with the devs skipping Viera uptdates for multiple patches if it means Hrothgar are caught up to speed and femHroths can be introduced in 7.0.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

This sort of statement feels like deliberate "here's a worst-case imagined scenario, now let me complain as if that's what SE is doing".

I see no reason at all for them to suddenly stop the ongoing pattern of giving each batch of hairstyles first to Viera and then later to Hrothgar.

Complain about it if and when they do it, but it's not something that should be assumed will happen.

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^ This.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

Nobody told anybody not to be upset and it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. I am personally just sick of Viera constantly being presented as the ultimate scapegoat for why Hrothgar can't have nice things.

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Because unfortunately devs have made them the reason why Hrothgar doesn't get as much. The devs could have by now caught Hrothgar up to Viera and then start giving out the same hair at the same time, but they've not done so. Viera has gotten first dibs on a lot of stuff, and it makes Hrothgar feel like the unloved child.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Because unfortunately devs have made them the reason why Hrothgar doesn't get as much. The devs could have by now caught Hrothgar up to Viera and then start giving out the same hair at the same time, but they've not done so. Viera has gotten first dibs on a lot of stuff, and it makes Hrothgar feel like the unloved child.

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Alternatively consider that updating Hrothgar is a harder job than updating Viera which means putting the same amount of work into both will always yield more results on one than the other. Either way none of this has to do with Viera players and yet it is the players who keep being described as ungrateful YoshiP boot-lickers who are defending the devs' every move when that isn't the case at all. Most of us seem to disagree with their schedule to keep Viera updates rolling while leaving Hrothgar patches behind, but we can't change what has already happened and the chances that our voices can have any impact going forward are minimal, probably nonexistent.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Aren't those fairly stiff on all races – is it definitely worse or have you not looked at others? Are they actually stiffer on female Viera specifically (not male Viera, not Hrothgar) or is there something about the new races compared to the old ones?

Not trying to disprove it anything, but being specific to female Viera seems odd. (Or is this what they were cryptically referring to about fixing issues with male Viera that the female models had?)

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No sadly they don't move at all on Female Viera only.. which so odd. I used these hair on my previous fantasia (Lala/Roe) and they moved flowlessly .