Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

Dont feel bad, one would expect more fire 4s = more damage and a system to actually work.

4 years in a row Yoshi, this is just pitiful now

it's like brd in 3.0, when they added the "immobile turret" mode, it was a dps lose too, till they fixed it

we need to adresse this Blm issue straight in a "this needs to be fixed for Blm" thread addressed directly at Yodhi

So let me get this straight. Other then the openener, we should skip B4?

From what im seeing, reading and testing in practical settings yes.

Unless there's a pin somewhere like only use b4 if triple cast is up or something weird.

Been going through Fflogs and the highest Blm all don't use B4 outside of opener. Just broken.
Gonna have to try doing this myself next time I get into ex primals.

They really need to tweak some things. If its really that much of a dps loss to maintain one of our new more interesting mechanics, that's just sad.

Yes, this needs to be addressed, and better soon. It's one of the core mechanics they designed, so it's a shame it's not working properly.
Makes you wonder if they even test these things before throwing them at us.

As for Blm having trouble in general in pfs and statics and meta.

Blm thunder dots should give enemies a magic resistance down buff (2-5%), making Blm more valuable and making a parallel meta with 3 casters possible (besides the "physical" meta).

I'll make a thread about this...
6 Fire IV is still a dps gain.
The issue is that if you move at all without Sharpcast up to get the F3 proc, you lose a Fire IV (due to AF III leniency).

5 Fire IV + the necessary B4 is a pps loss.
The guy is probably predicting a mechanic for which he cannot do it and he bypasses it half the time (not always though, if you see carefully).
From top of my head, up until gaols+puddles I can make it work.

But for churning+knockback, for levinbolt+cloud+knockback and sometimes for puddlesx2+churning, I just do not have enough casts and bypass B4 myself.

I was practicing on the dummy with me not doing B4 after the opener. The issue that kept on popping up is Fouls timing. It started popping up during my AF3 phase. I noticed it more when I had only 2400 mana left, and I b3 instead.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

I was practicing on the dummy with me not doing B4 after the opener. The issue that kept on popping up is Fouls timing. It started popping up during my AF3 phase. I noticed it more when I had only 2400 mana left, and I b3 instead.

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Can't you just push them back until you can double Foul in UI?
Hell, do the 2.X rotation. You gain RDM mobility and lose 10% dps lol
Also you always have enough mana to Foul mid AF if you need to.
This job is robbing me of my sanity.
The more I look into the numbers, the more I realise the futility of my efforts...

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

Can't you just push them back until you can double Foul in UI?
Hell, do the 2.X rotation. You gain RDM mobility and lose 10% dps lol
Also you always have enough mana to Foul mid AF if you need to.
This job is robbing me of my sanity.
The more I look into the numbers, the more I realise the futility of my efforts...

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Hmm I guess I could, but I am also thinking too that movement will skew it worse. I am still struggling on the facts that 4 F4 do more dps then 6 F4.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

Hmm I guess I could, but I am also thinking too that movement will skew it worse. I am still struggling on the facts that 4 F4 do more dps then 6 F4.

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Get 3 Firestarter or more procs in the 2.X rotation, and you're within 4% dps of the 3.X one.
So, by all means, it's probably optimal to switch between 2.X and 3.X depending on the phase of the fight.

UH will come back. We just need more spellspeed to fit everything+movement.

guys? Is the Susano Weapon worth it? Not having any cast speed on it scares me!

what is a good air rotation now for BLM? I've been doing fire 3. thunder iv . flare. transpose. fire 3 . thunder. flare repeat. they say BLM is aoe king but i see rdm doing the same damage

also is it ever worth it casting blizzard 4 for single target dps? I've read it is better to ignore it and just do blizzard 3 then back to astral fire phase

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

what is a good air rotation now for BLM? I've been doing fire 3. thunder iv . flare. transpose. fire 3 . thunder. flare repeat. they say BLM is aoe king but i see rdm doing the same damage

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I assume you mean AoE not Air lol

B3 B4 T4 F3 F2 F2 (Triplecast) Flare Flare Convert Flare Transpose Foul
Sharpcast Thunder IV if you can.
I don't know if it's better to B3 after the first Flare when Convert isn't available or to do another Flare and then transpose.

I did a treasure hunt with friends and had about 9 enemies up with high HP pools so even if it took me quite a bit to kill all of them as I was the only DPS, I still reached a sustained DPS of 21000~ when aoeing them.

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Originally Posted by OmegaStrongtan

guys? Is the Susano Weapon worth it? Not having any cast speed on it scares me!

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Weapon damage > every stat

Always and forever.

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

what is a good air rotation now for BLM? I've been doing fire 3. thunder iv . flare. transpose. fire 3 . thunder. flare repeat. they say BLM is aoe king but i see rdm doing the same damage

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I assume you mean AoE, and is this at 70?

Bliz 3, bliz 4, thunder 4, fire 3, fire 2, flare, flare, convert, flare, tranpose, TC proc if you have it, bliz 4, fire 3, flare, flare, transpose

You could skip the Fire2 and head straight to Flare if it's only 3 targets. On 4+ targets then go ahead and Fire2. Assuming you are starting the pull without any AF/UI stacks, start off with a B1 instead. The faster you get to your Flares/Fouls the better. Use sharp on T4 when you can. T4P is nuts on mobs.

BLM is AOE king in dungeons. RDMs don't even come close to how we obliterate pulls.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

The guy is probably predicting a mechanic for which he cannot do it and he bypasses it half the time (not always though, if you see carefully).

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The top parse literally uses B4 twice in the entire fight, that's all.

has anyone tried a BLM SMN BRD NIN coomp?

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Originally Posted by Rakhabit

The top parse literally uses B4 twice in the entire fight, that's all.

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I saw the wrong one.
I tend to order them by dps without the balance (the one ahead in that one uses B4 a bit more).
I found the one you guys are talking about last night (and went on a huge tirade about it in a post too).
If you crunch some pps numbers, the 4.0 rotation has the single advantage of better Foul timings, so you're right.
My bad.

Actually, if the 3.X rotation beats the 4.0 one in pps with a Thundercloud proc, and the only potential drawback is us "catching up" to the Foul timer...
Now that AF and UI are 13 seconds...
We should not stack speed and use the 3.X rotation.
We stack DH/CH to make sure each spell hits as hard as it can. We have more AF/UI time now, so we don't need as much speed for the 3.X rotation. And this also makes sure we'll get a hard-hitting Foul when we get to UI.
We do the B4+8xF4 opener to get Foul ticking like 10seconds ahead... and then we go into 3.X mode, until Triple and Ley Lines are back and we use B4 again to, once again, get Foul a bit farther ahead again.
We Sharpcast T3 to get the most TC procs, so we further extend the timer (we can use these in AF without loss for the 3.X rotation, unlike the 4.0 one...).

I noticed that guy on Fflogs uses Triple during LL. Isn't that a waste?

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

I noticed that guy on Fflogs uses Triple during LL. Isn't that a waste?

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I believe being under LL reduces your global gcd, making Triple fire off spells faster.
It may or may not be a waste depending in where you need to move.
That said, they naturally align and the two cds are synergistic, so it's not awful or anything.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

We should not stack speed and use the 3.X rotation.

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Yeah we'll see with 4.0.5 if things changes but that was actually my thinking as well, plus it will have the added benefit of making your caster gear interchangeable for RDM/SMN as well since those jobs does not need spell speed.

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

I noticed that guy on Fflogs uses Triple during LL. Isn't that a waste?

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Cast Time - Recast = Value of Triplecast

Based on my SpS my F4 cast and recast are 2.80 and 2.33 respectively. That means that my F4s being instant nets me 0.47secs multipled by 3 F4s = 1.41secs shaved off by Triplecast.
Under leylines the cast and rescast are 2.38 and 1.98. So that amounts to 0.4secs per F4 multiplied by 3 = 1.2secs

Technically, you would get more value from Triplecast outside Leylines. But would you really hold off on using it on your opener for the 30sec of Leylines just so you could get an additional 0.21secs? Ex-Death would not approve.

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Originally Posted by soslinky

Technically, you would get more value from Triplecast outside Leylines. But would you really hold off on using it on your opener for the 30sec of Leylines just so you could get an additional 0.21secs? Ex-Death would not approve.

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I have been experimenting with both, started using it in first rotation after Ley Lines cause it felt like a waste.
Since SE still decides that we PS4 players don't deserve an option to see our numbers I had no valid possibility to compare and see which one is better. That's why I asked what others are doing.

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

snip.

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Sorry to hear that. :( Outside openers though, and assuming Leylines is still on CD while Triplecast is up, I'd use it on the next F4 barrage.

When parsing a SSS dummy, if you're in melee range and auto-attack the whole ca. 3 min parse, how much do those auto-attack ("wand smacking") do in % of the total Dps? of the whole ca. 3 min run?

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

When parsing a SSS dummy, if you're in melee range and auto-attack the whole ca. 3 min parse, how much do those auto-attack ("wand smacking") do in % of the total Dps? of the whole ca. 3 min run?

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You can only auto between casts (not when you're channeling a spell).
Autos are about 70ish damage each.
OVer 60 casts, at best you get 60 autos off for ~22dps.
In reality, you'll get less. Let's say 15dps.
If you parse 4.4k over 3 mins, the autos add under 0.3% dps.
SMN/SCH book smacking is actually stronger than BLM staff bashing btw (they get like 60dps off it).

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

You can only auto between casts (not when you're channeling a spell).
Autos are about 70ish damage each.
OVer 60 casts, at best you get 60 autos off for ~22dps.
In reality, you'll get less. Let's say 15dps.
If you parse 4.4k over 3 mins, the autos add under 0.3% dps.
SMN/SCH book smacking is actually stronger than BLM staff bashing btw (they get like 60dps off it).

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thanx

in Theorie, that's more or about "the gab/ between blm and Sam on the SSS dummy, they're like only 6 dps difference from one another for the minimum requirement on Susano and Lakshmi ..,

so if you can auto attack half the fight, it could be equal to Sams dps, ..Unless ofc SE took the auto attacks into consideration.. and both get the same buffs

(but we know, most fights will not allow blm to maximise it's dps,.. even rdm out dps us in real fights xD)

So as of right now what is the current opener and rotation? I'm hearing using Umbral Hearts is useless outside of openers so I'm hoping to get a good opener/rotations

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Originally Posted by Dusk278

So as of right now what is the current opener and rotation? I'm hearing using Umbral Hearts is useless outside of openers so I'm hoping to get a good opener/rotations

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This is the opener I'm using right now.
http://i.imgur.com/CpMrlr2.png

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Originally Posted by Dusk278

So as of right now what is the current opener and rotation? I'm hearing using Umbral Hearts is useless outside of openers so I'm hoping to get a good opener/rotations

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well the top no balance parses for lakshmi show BLMS using B4 so I guess this is not true.

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

well the top no balance parses for lakshmi show BLMS using B4 so I guess this is not true.

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https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/15#b...spec=BlackMage

they all do 3 f4 f1 f4... b3 foul b4

wtf is that a flare in the opener?

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Originally Posted by paoweeotter

well the top no balance parses for lakshmi show BLMS using B4 so I guess this is not true.

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The point of this thread is to point out that utilizing 4.0 rotation over 3.0 would only net you a marginal increase in DPS or an actual loss. That the impact of integrating the Stormblood skills is just not worth the risk and effort.

I don't think Lakshmi is a proper fight to compare parses and invalidate this thread. That fight is practically a dummy fight compared to Susano.

Let's talk Susano, since that boss is a preview of what's to come and will screw us over if we insist on using 4.0 rotation on a movement-heavy fight:

Non-balance top parse is currently at 4103.9 for Susano. I'd like to point out that the other guy with top parse w/ balance had an unbuffed DPS of 3926.9. That's only an increase of 177 points of DPS. On a rotation (4.0) that, according to the math, gives you only 1.5seconds for movement, any interruptions to the 6 F4s and 1 F1 would mean you would either have to: transpose, give up an F4 and go UI, swiftcast B3, or ditch T3P. Now since we don't have a replay of that 4.0 rotation top non-balance parse but I would imagine that he played the fight to perfection. That's something that won't occur very often given the RNG of Susano's mechanics.