Your thoughts on Astrolgian so far?

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Of course not. Do you expect to be able to heal as a WHM and shield like a SCH, while having cards on top of that?

What else? How about dpsing like a MNK?

The only thing that I admit might need some revamping indeed is the card system. Making anything else on par with WHM and SCH would not only make those jobs obsolete, but it would kill AST identity as well.

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Wait. I never said that AST should lose its identity. I'm just saying that for a level60 healer is much more weaker then WHM/SCH and it's just a fact.
do you want good support + high healing potency? Scholars can DPS, can buff (with Selene) and can shield and now with Emergecy Tactics and with Indomitability they are sufficient to re-fill the raid group after a big damage.
Scholars can DPS pushing high numbers and shield with a crit-adlo the whole team using Deployment tactics.
do you want low support + very high healing potency? White mage are pure healers and can heal everything. They have single-target abilities: Cure II can proc as FREE CURE, they now have Tetragrammaton that it's like Lustrate/Essential Dignity, they can heal the party with Cure3, Medica, Medica2 and Asylum.
Do you want high support with low healing potency? You have AST.
Astrologian shines with cards, and imho cards are perfect the way they are. But with the increase of level cap, the other healers have been enpowered. Scholars lacked in group heal and white mage in single-target instant heals and now they have new abilties that in 2.0 were only for ONE of the 2 classes.
It's just a fact: WHM and SCH are OP.
So I'm just wondering if Astrologians support is worth.
In Alexander, I think we will see.

Anyway, I'm not even saying to rework this job because I'm not crazy. AST is ok, and it's a lot of fun to play.
I think that SOME ABILITIES have a wrong-design:
- Lightspeed (for the -25%)
- Celestial Opposition
- Collective Unconscious (seriously... ://)

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Hyperboles aside, the cards are just a gimmick at this point and doesn't validate AST's lower healing numbers compared to WHM and SCH. WHM and SCH already make this job obsolete.

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That is why complaints should focus on cards, and not on healing / shielding potency. I assume that current Astrologians were drawn to the job by the cards, not by "Oh look I can be a WHM or a SCH!".

Honestly, it is common sense that AST cant be as specialized as the other two jobs. The focus is on cards: whine about that if you must, not about potency.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

That is why complaints should focus on cards, and not on healing / shielding potency. I assume that current Astrologians were drawn to the job by the cards, not by "Oh look I can be a WHM or a SCH!".

Honestly, it is common sense that AST cant be as specialized as the other two jobs. The focus is on cards: whine about that if you must, not about potency.

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I agree. The card buffs are negligible at best, especially during longer fights where SCH DPS/utility will contribute far more to a fight.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

That is why complaints should focus on cards, and not on healing / shielding potency. I assume that current Astrologians were drawn to the job by the cards, not by "Oh look I can be a WHM or a SCH!".

Honestly, it is common sense that AST cant be as specialized as the other two jobs. The focus is on cards: whine about that if you must, not about potency.

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We're not saying we want to be WHM or SCH, we just want to be able with compete and work together with them in terms of healing because this IS a healing job, it's taking a spot in the party away from one of them (both of which already work together really well), and while the cards are a nice idea, they don't compensate the lower healing and can be too random when you'll need a specific effect. Healers need to be on point and can't be wishy-washy or random.
lordparanoia said pretty much everything that needed to be said.

Astrologian is not far behind the others. When I'm playing with low level content, AST's toolkit is very competent, I have time to DPS and Draw freely. As soon as I hit 50, I noticed AST's heals falling behind WHM or SCH's, despite having the same level gear. Not overwhelmingly, but noticeably. I can still effectively heal HM trials and dungeons, but there is a shift in dynamics where I need to focus on healing, Draw when convenient, and DPS only if the group is performing flawlessly.

This indicates to me that there is a strong base that AST is built on, it can handle dungeons that are tricky to level through like SV and AV without much trouble. Some part of its kit just feels lost in translation past 50, where it's too easy to fall behind and too hard to catch up. AST needs a way to help it keep up with other healers. It doesn't need the same throughput as WHM/SCH, but it needs to at least be able to handle similar amounts of damage without being put back on its heels, which ends up causing MP struggles, requiring cards on AST instead of other party members, or worst case causing panic, and a subsequent wipe.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

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You are saying you dont want AST to be WHM or SCH yet you are crying and whining for higher healing/shielding potencies, and waaait you want AST to take WHM and SCH spot from a party , thats how i understood your statement. Than tell me my friend what will be the point in playing eithe rSCH or WHM anymore if AST will do both their jobs better as you wish it to be (it's taking a spot in the party away from one of them)? I am sorry but that will never happen, period, it will break the healing role and you will only see AST/AST.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

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So, you dont want to be a SCH or WHM but you constantly compare with what they can bring to a fight that you cannot. Get over it - different jobs MUST be different.

It is like BRD complaining they do less dps than MNK, or WHM complaining they cannot shield as a SCH.

The identity of an AST is the cards - focus on that. Otherwise, play a WHM or a SCH and you will be happy.

My raiding partner is an AST. I am perfectly aware that I cannot DPS as much as I did when she was a WHM, but that is balanced by the support AST can bring.
Now, if we want to argue that AST support needs tweaking, fair enough - we will know shortly witb Alex. But complaining about potency is shortsighted to say the least.

I completely agree with mimilu and lord. Those 3 CDs should be tweaked. Healing potency is ok, but cards' effects must be boosted significantly to justify it. Now they are just useless. Shuffle shouldn't give the same card and lightspeed should bring a 10% potency reduction + reduced MP cost (or refresh with a lower potency than LA). Until the job is fixed I'll go back to SCH. There's no way I'm trying Alexander Savage with AST as it is now.

I just want SE to focus on updating the nearly useless abilities given to AST at level 58 and 60... The card system works at a good baseline level and our healing is OK at a base line level. AST really just needs some utility to go along with either system (I could care less which one). As it is now, it just feels like an incomplete class...

Can someone explain why giving AST equal base potencies would invalidate Divine Seal, Cure 3, Benediction, Assize, Aero 3, Aetherflow, SCH's fairy (along with the skills they bring), Shadow Flare, Bane, Virus, Lustrate, Eye For An Eye, Indomitability, Deployment Tactics and Dissipation? These are things AST has no ability to mimic (at least effectively or as efficient). If anything, AST would be able to more easily replace WHM for anything except progression. Why should AST suffer for its cards while SCH doesn't suffer for its fairy?

I don't even have a problem with AST's base potencies being lower, I have a problem with the utility it mimics from SCH that SCH also does better and the only unique thing it brings is gated behind constant RNG. I have had times where I've spread bole, drew bole and shuffled into bole in the course of 35 seconds only to draw bole again the next time during periods of barely any damage being done to the tank.