It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

No you can't "just assume that everyone is seeing them how they want to be seen". It creates the opposite effect. You can never be certain how people are seeing you.

And as I said so many times, it's not about demanding to be admired in my outfit. It's about not being shown in something I don't want to be seen in.

This thread just feels like a thousand exhausting cycles of the same argument with the same misrepresentations at every turn of why someone might not want people to be able to do this to their character, whether or not the effect is fed back to the player, and I am so very tired of trying to explain again to the same few people.

I don't want to "be seen" and focused on, I just don't want to be misrepresented.

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It's a video game for crying out loud. Why does it bother you so much that the pixels on my screen may be different than the pixels on yours? I mean, this is going beyond the realm of the absurd to be so worried about how your character appears to others to this degree.

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Originally Posted by Joven

It's a video game for crying out loud. Why does it bother you so much that the pixels on my screen may be different than the pixels on yours? I mean, this is going beyond the realm of the absurd to be so worried about how your character appears to others to this degree.

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No it's not absurd and why do you care so much others feel that way? They're entitled to an opinion on the subject. I think everyone who follows this thread knows HOW YOU FEEL.

Personally I don't care but I don't particularly think the devs are interested in the idea of doing what some would like and the chances of their implementing this feature in my opinion is quite small.

We have a patch that is 2 months late and the prospects of an xpac that will be do. They have a lot more to worry about than hiding some male hrothgar from wearing a wedding dress.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

No it's not absurd and why do you care so much others feel that way? They're entitled to an opinion on the subject. I think everyone who follows this thread knows HOW YOU FEEL.

Personally I don't care but I don't particularly think the devs are interested in the idea of doing what some would like and the chances of their implementing this feature in my opinion is quite small.

We have a patch that is 2 months late and the prospects of an xpac that will be do. They have a lot more to worry about than hiding some male hrothgar from wearing a wedding dress.

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Because I thought people were more intelligent than this. It's fine to have an opinion about it, but to act like you're personally being harmed because somewhere, someone that you'll never meet might not want to see how your video game character dresses is insane.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Because I thought people were more intelligent than this

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Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Pushing YOUR agenda as if your opinion is the only one that matters is what exactly? People can disagree with you and be intelligent. I would suggest you give the topic a rest.

This topic is absolute nonsense, lmao. Why is it still going?

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Pushing YOUR agenda as if your opinion is the only one that matters is what exactly? People can disagree with you and be intelligent. I would suggest you give the topic a rest.

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How exactly is this MY agenda? I've said many times that I don't really care if this feature gets implemented or not, but that doesn't mean I can't advocate for it because it harms no-one. It's one thing to debate the merits of whether this feature would harm glamour sales, but people are taking it personally for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Joven

How exactly is this MY agenda? I've said many times that I don't really care if this feature gets implemented or not, but that doesn't mean I can't advocate for it because it harms no-one. It's one thing to debate the merits of whether this feature would harm glamour sales, but people are taking it personally for some reason.

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You've posted how many times in this thread? 100 probably a lot more? My count is at 6 and I'm rarely in this thread. You are saying you don't have an agenda when you take it upon yourself to respond to everyone who has a different opinion than you. You can't be serious. You've made your opinions well known so move on and stop trying to berate anyone who has a different opinion from you.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

You've posted how many times in this thread? 100 probably a lot more? My count is at 6 and I'm rarely in this thread. You are saying you don't have an agenda when you take it upon yourself to respond to everyone who has a different opinion than you. You can't be serious. You've made your opinions well known so move on and stop trying to berate anyone who has a different opinion from you.

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Who are you to dictate how many times I post on here or who I reply to? If someone wants to have a different opinion that's fine, but where I draw the line is at those who insinuate others intentions or take this feature personally.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Who are you to dictate how many times I post on here or who I reply to? If someone wants to have a different opinion that's fine, but where I draw the line is at those who insinuate others intentions or take this feature personally.

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No one but I have an opinion. You have an agenda and are pushing it. We can all see that. Claiming you don't or that others aren't intelligent who disagree just goes to show where you're coming from. Done here,

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

No one but I have an opinion. You have an agenda and are pushing it. We can all see that. Claiming you don't or that others aren't intelligent who disagree just goes to show where you're coming from. Done here,

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Bye

/10characters

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Originally Posted by Shougun

This would be part of the reason why I think it would have been nice if they had created a glamour system that consistently articulated a FF vibe, like less restrictions on most pieces of gear (probably something to do with weight classes and then AF/job specific being used for only the iconic imagery)

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I do agree with this. If there was going to be any sort of "style restriction" to prevent immersion breaking then it should have been implemented globally from the start with stricter rules about gear design styles. Keep everyone on the same page and in control of their own character, just be more selective about the choices that players are presented with. But that's a horse that has long since bolted.

That said, an "FF vibe" can be anything from high fantasy to modern to sci-fi to whatever part of the fantasy kitchen sink they feel like throwing us into today.

While I appreciate the more high fantasy side of things myself, a lot of people seem to be looking to the more modern outfits. I don't know what research is guiding their decisions on glamour gear, but it's going over well whether I like it or not.

Ultimately, if SE had any intention of protecting us from immersion-breaking glamour then they'd stop putting in things like the Namazu and bunny outfits.

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Originally Posted by Rasler_Heios

Why bother setting up a glamour when the only one who sees it is yourself.

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To be fair, glamour isn't just about dressing up for others. It's also about creating it for myself. But - like picking clothes in real life - any outfit I've put together for my character will be based on the two important questions (a) do I like how this looks? and (b) am I happy to wear this in public?

Sometimes I do make glamours that don't fit that rule. There are some that I've put together and taken arty screenshots of, but wouldn't wear in a town or dungeon. (To be clear, things like a White Rabbit costume that looked great in the specific pictures I took but stood out cartoonishly anywhere else, or a set of themed glamours I'm working on that will need some of my characters in elaborate robes they wouldn't normally wear.)

Much like in real life, as a cosplayer, I'll wear a costume at a convention but feel dreadfully silly if I have to wear it while getting there on the train, and certainly wouldn't wear the outfit "as myself". And still I pick costume choices based on my own taste in clothing - though at least with the choice to add tights under skirts if I want.

So yeah. On the one hand yes, glamours are "for me", but that doesn't mean I don't care about how my character is presented to others. The two things are intrinsically linked.


Edit to add: I have just as much fun dressing up characters in single-player games, on the rare occasion that they have complex customisation options like this one.

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Originally Posted by Joven

It's a video game for crying out loud. Why does it bother you so much that the pixels on my screen may be different than the pixels on yours? I mean, this is going beyond the realm of the absurd to be so worried about how your character appears to others to this degree.

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I care about those pixels when those pixels are representing my character-the-player-avatar, which is how I appear in and interact with the game world and hypothetical-you via your avatar.

I've gone into this before. It's different approaches to how people think about player avatars. On the one hand, yes in the immediate sense they're just "pixels on a screen" but those pixels are being piloted by a live human being just as much as your personal character is.

I don't want to forget that. I don't want to think of other people in the game as nothing but pixels.

And no, this isn't [insert preferred "trapped in an MMO" anime here] where they're literally in the game, but simply that at some level by playing a multiplayer game - any game really - some part of your mental self is inserted into that bundle of pixels.

You don't say "I input a series of button commands to instruct the game to reduce the boss's HP". You say "I killed the boss".

While you are playing, your character is "you" and there's nothing strange about talking about your character in the first person.

Therefore if you are on my screen, I am seeing you.

If I see someone I know, I think "there's my friend X", not "there's the set of pixels representing X". Interacting with them is, to my mind, interacting with a real person - because ultimately that's what I'm doing.

So that is how I interpret other people in the game, and therefore how I feel about other people seeing me in the game.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

le snip

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The reason you say "I killed the boss" is because you're the one who did all the work by pushing buttons and inputting commands. Your character is just a representaion of those commands on the screen. They don't actually accomplish anything. I say "I" do something in a game, not because I see myself as the character, but because I'm the one at the helm. When you play a game with an established character like Sonic or Mario or Geralt you still say "I beat the boss" because you're the one doing the work, not the character.

When it comes to interacting with friends it's basically just a glorified chat room. You refer to them by their screen names because that's either all you know them by, or because being an online arena you don't want to give out real names lightly. Your avatar is essentially your profile pic.

Imagine this situation. You have a roommate, and two televisions in the house. You both want to watch TV simultaneously. She wants to watch a chick flick and you want to watch an action movie.

You turn on the TV in your room just to have your roommate pull you out by the arm and force you to the other TV to watch their chick flick with them. You protest and say you wanted to watch your action movie, but she insists you must watch this chick flick with her.

'But there's another TV back there', you say. 'I can watch my action movie and you can watch your chick flick, everyone wins.'

'No!' She replies. 'I don't care, you have to watch this chick flick with me because I want to show my preferences and life experience through this movie.'

'You can still watch your show out here though and enjoy it and I can enjoy mine in the other room.' You point out again.

'Stop trying to censor me!' She shrieks.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

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That is a phenomenally tortured metaphor.

You're talking about two people watching completely disconnected movies.

This is about a game world being shared by both people.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That is a phenomenally tortured metaphor.

You're talking about two people watching completely disconnected movies.

This is about a game world being shared by both people.

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It is not tortured at all. This is, in a nutshell, what this thread has been about. In my scenario, the apartment is shared by two people. One person decided that their need to have the other person see what they wanted them to see was paramount. That is the argument of those in this thread. You insist people have to see the outfit you've compiled, even though what they argue would pose no harm to you, and you would not even know about it.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

It is not tortured at all. This is, in a nutshell, what this thread has been about. In my scenario, the apartment is shared by two people. One person decided that their need to have the other person see what they wanted them to see was paramount. That is the argument of those in this thread. You insist people have to see the outfit you've compiled, even though what they argue would pose no harm to you, and you would not even know about it.

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I think the argument is that they *would* know about it by dint of the knowledge that feature exists in the first place. That someone would be using it because it's there.

https://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/202007160001/

Partial translation taken from a tweet:
The system used for the umbrellas is apparently going to be expanded into something called "Fashion Items," and Yoshi P mentions wanting to walk around with a stuffed animal as an example.

Imagine standing amidst the ruins of Amarot and not only do you have 10 people revving their SDS Fenrirs, but you've got a Roe in a bunny suit holding a stuffed bunny. Though in this case, imagine all those people without glamours revving their SDS fenrirs in mismatch gear and a Roe in an ill fitting dress, Neo-Ishgardian boots, holding a stuffed bunny.

lmao imagine thinking sexy glamours is more immersion breaking then the majority of ppl around you wearing the exact same mismatched tome and raid sets.

The system would not need to be implemented in a way that forced gear to be mismatched. Instead, it could easily default to displaying other characters in their chosen playable race's starter gear, their chosen job's initial relic set or a plain grey robe.

Would that be immersion breaking to some? Perhaps. Though personally, I'd find it very welcome as other players outside of my immediate social network are simply faces in a crowd. It'd also help with loading times when many players are in the same zone, which is a major bonus and the primary reason the feature already exists in certain other MMO's.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

It is not tortured at all. This is, in a nutshell, what this thread has been about. In my scenario, the apartment is shared by two people. One person decided that their need to have the other person see what they wanted them to see was paramount. That is the argument of those in this thread. You insist people have to see the outfit you've compiled, even though what they argue would pose no harm to you, and you would not even know about it.

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No it is not my argument.

My argument, to insist on your metaphor, is that I want to watch my movie and you can either watch it or walk away and not watch it. You can see my character or you can go somewhere else and not see my character.

The metaphor runs out because you watching your separate movie is completely disconnected from my movie. There is no equivalent I can conceive of, except perhaps that the two people are trying to watch different movies in the same room with the sound overlapping and affecting the other person's experience.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

No it is not my argument.

My argument, to insist on your metaphor, is that I want to watch my movie and you can either watch it or walk away and not watch it. You can see my character or you can go somewhere else and not see my character.

The metaphor runs out because you watching your separate movie is completely disconnected from my movie. There is no equivalent I can conceive of, except perhaps that the two people are trying to watch different movies in the same room with the sound overlapping and affecting the other person's experience.

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Stepping away from the metaphors for a second, you know it's entirely possible for anyone to see your character as however they choose already, right?

So tell me, is this fact affecting your experience in any way, shape or form?

It's true.
Thanks to the wonders of 3rd party software you could make everyone run around in jobgear already.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

No it is not my argument.

My argument, to insist on your metaphor, is that I want to watch my movie and you can either watch it or walk away and not watch it. You can see my character or you can go somewhere else and not see my character.

The metaphor runs out because you watching your separate movie is completely disconnected from my movie. There is no equivalent I can conceive of, except perhaps that the two people are trying to watch different movies in the same room with the sound overlapping and affecting the other person's experience.

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If I am running a dungeon roulette and get you in my party, where am I going to go in order to not see your character? Leave the instance? Would you also be cool if you were in the office and your co-worker was naked because you can just turn the other way right?

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Originally Posted by Ibkee

Stepping away from the metaphors for a second, you know it's entirely possible for anyone to see your character as however they choose already, right?

So tell me, is this fact affecting your experience in any way, shape or form?

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Yes. I don't like the thought of it at all. I try not to think it.

And as I said earlier, the fact that people have to deliberately break the rules of the game to do so is still a different precedent to an officially implemented invitation to do so.


Once again I am falling into the trap of posting here and having to say all the same things over again and it only makes me feel miserable.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Yes. I don't like the thought of it at all. I try not to think it.

And as I said earlier, the fact that people have to deliberately break the rules of the game to do so is still a different precedent to an officially implemented invitation to do so.


Once again I am falling into the trap of posting here and having to say all the same things over again and it only makes me feel miserable.

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Well, at the end of the day it's just a debate regarding an optional feature related to a video-game. It's a shame that it makes you feel 'miserable', though that would appear to be something to perhaps address and work on.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Yes. I don't like the thought of it at all. I try not to think it.

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How is it affecting your experience?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Yes. I don't like the thought of it at all. I try not to think it.

And as I said earlier, the fact that people have to deliberately break the rules of the game to do so is still a different precedent to an officially implemented invitation to do so.


Once again I am falling into the trap of posting here and having to say all the same things over again and it only makes me feel miserable.

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Have you questioned why those people feel the need to break the rules and use third party programs for glamours? Personally I know someone who only does it for their character to get bigger breasts and skimpier clothing (not to mention nudes), but others might do it for the same reason this thread was started to begin with. Nobody knows but them.

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Originally Posted by Ibkee

Stepping away from the metaphors for a second, you know it's entirely possible for anyone to see your character as however they choose already, right?

So tell me, is this fact affecting your experience in any way, shape or form?

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Only when they shove it in my face as people who use mods are want to do because they want their catgirl's plastic tata's hanging out and then "OMG your character looks so wacky with this nude mod XDDD"

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Originally Posted by Iscah

No, that's not my point. It's not "an argument you could make with any suggestion" because other suggestions are not about altering the degree of control a person has over their own character. Adding a new job or race or game mode does nothing at all to your character if you don't want to engage with it. Adding new costumes does not require you to wear them. Other people will, and that's their business.

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You did say it would be a fundamental shift in the game's philosophy to change it after the fact. It may not be your intent but anything added could fall in that categorie. Also in the end why must one just tolerate what they may find uncomfortable but another side does not?

Guess in the end it does not seem right how one side can ssy sorry you either can tolerate what you msy find uncomfortable or leave so to speak. I get for many the video game represents themselves and for others they are just pixels.

So for me it is hard to understand since from my perspective I am not altering anything in the game itself only what i personally change and maybe also cause I may or may not use mods I have a bais towards this.

At to a degree I appreciate your honesty. You do feel your overall personal repsenation holds more weight then whst another may find uncomfortable. I can respect that. Overall for me I will never understand why people project themselves into their online character. Just seems to lead to weird postions of infringment over a video game.

Granted for me most people idk sre just random npcs, lol kind of like how i view people irl. So for me your position is something I will never understand cause it just seems like you are saying SE has had things this way, any change now would be unfair sorry but not sorry. Which I get to a degree since that is how I am when I vote kick people for difference of plsy style yet people call me toxic for that mindset. Yet with glam it is considered s'ok.

I know the situations are not the same, but for I tend to not care about the situation per se and more so the train if though applied to the situation. This is the same train of thought that many people have called me out on. So it feels weird to see it being considered okay now. Especially cause mods exist, snd for me just seems like a cop out that you say you do not like it but live with it because people have to break the rules to do it and it js not widely accepted. Yet if it is added by SE that makes it a different because it is official idk. Just seems like selective caring in my eyes.

With that being said I do wish the thread would move away from do nit want because, and more so what compromises could be made to make it more toleratable across the board. Since I doubt any side will change their mind so if we cannot change pur minds maybe we can come up with a désirable compromise.

Though for that quick question, if the character in question has the apparence of a random NPC does not share your name just the actions you input would that be toleratable? Just wondering.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I do agree with this. If there was going to be any sort of "style restriction" to prevent immersion breaking then it should have been implemented globally from the start with stricter rules about gear design styles. Keep everyone on the same page and in control of their own character, just be more selective about the choices that players are presented with. But that's a horse that has long since bolted.

That said, an "FF vibe" can be anything from high fantasy to modern to sci-fi to whatever part of the fantasy kitchen sink they feel like throwing us into today.

While I appreciate the more high fantasy side of things myself, a lot of people seem to be looking to the more modern outfits. I don't know what research is guiding their decisions on glamour gear, but it's going over well whether I like it or not.

Ultimately, if SE had any intention of protecting us from immersion-breaking glamour then they'd stop putting in things like the Namazu and bunny outfits.

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Indeed there is a huge variety to the visuals of FF, but if we take any FF as a single unit they clearly have a visual code- even FFX-2 which would be their most 'lewd' lol (but I'd not want that art direction, just saying it has a code). I have a strong feeling whoever is making the mascots is not the same person who is ensuring the story is taken seriously (that isn't to say they're fighting), such that whoever is working on the story would not put Minfilla into a Namazu or Casino girl costume UNLESS it was explicitly for the purpose of telling the story of wearing that costume. Or in other words they'd have some reason why they did it, it just wouldn't be because it could be- it would be because it needed to be.

That if you told the person who was making the content to direct the entire story that they'd not be putting people into outfits that don't fit the vibe of the environment they're telling, and that's regardless of which game you pick- that there is a code and strong purpose to having a visual flow (which can be Saints Row, or it can be Lord of the Rings- huge variety, but the direction of art isn't willy nilly / not important (unless that's the intended feeling they want you to take away)). Obviously I mentioned it before but I wanted to add even in the MSQ of this own game they have a visual style, it's just sequestered from the characters who can clearly take a giant hatchet to it if they so choose (which would be awesome if it was an sRPG, because it would be at your choice, your option to do so, but it kind of sucks when someone else hatchets your visual style that, clearly, the person who made the story had set up- and I'm going to call great halls of Thal if anyone suggested that SE doesn't care about how they present their story lol).

I agree it's waaaaaay easier to address this stuff from the beginning, so I hope next time the art director and quest directors, just everyone lol, talk about how they are setting their mood just like if they were making an sRPG- and do something like that. Even sometimes SE, usually through Yoshida, talks about the MSQ as if you could view it as a true to form FF rpg (just like our sRPGs, play it for the story sort of comments), so I don't feel like I'm being obtuse or overly strange asking SE to get everyone hands on deck to produce the best visual experience they can when telling their stories.

Which, I know might sound like I'm saying no sexy or no goofy, never, ever, but I'd like to remind when I say FF vibe I'm thinking Tidus, Lulu, Yuffie, Tifa, Wakka, Zidane, Echo, Garnet, Quistis, Lightning, Rikku, etc, etc. In short dedicated spurts (doesn't pervade the entire game), they even have more fun with like Chocolina or Cloud's dress up. Which is a huge variety, some a revealing, some goofy. This is why I actually said perhaps they go into armor classes and then use very rarely the job specific restrictions (well and weapons if we're weapons based job system, which might not be a thing in the next game).

With the only exception that I think FFX-2 was too much too often (as an imo, not as an insult to the game)- so I want to be clear and say I'm not saying that one (pick any FF vibe but that one lol), I played it long ago but just never cared to finish it because I had really enjoyed the world of FFX and this, especially after FFX, felt like a strong departure in tone and that I accidentally purchased some ecchi game lol. Might also had to do with the fact I was still in highschool when I rented that from a hollywood video, which also meant playing it on the big screen with my parents walking by and I just felt like it would have been easier to tell them I was watching adult content. To be clear that's not a "those games shouldn't exist", or that sexy content shouldn't exist- like Shiva or whichever enemies sometimes got the lewd treatment lol, that's fine, boobs and male thigh don't scare me, I just don't want to have it 24/7- that's the desert not my main course lol. Also few probably remember like 8 years ago but my opinion has shifted from then if anyone does, wanted to note that (I was more against the glamour system, I think in my head I was still picturing some hardcore realistic FF game, having seen how much content glamour brings- that was a silly position, though I still strongly believe in visual narrative). So in X-2's case they do actually have a visual narrative/code, It was just way too pervasive with it's particular style for my tastes (that's an opinion, :p, I'm sure some loved it)- and also the attitude, outside of the visuals wasn't really my style, everywhere you turned was like young highschool girl lens meets a lewd filter. The game didn't hide it either though, it didn't try to pull a fast one on anyone, so I don't say it begrudgingly either- the game has a right to exist, I'm not morally crusading it (from the trailer I already had a feeling it wouldn't be to my style, but I got it anyways because I thought FFX was very fun), it was fair and honest on what it would be like and it just happened to not be the sequel I was looking for (but that's fine, it didn't even try to act like it would be that- I was hoping against the obvious).

So it's kind of expected that my response would have been such, I just don't really look for young girl (or boy) emotions + pervasively lewd art direction (using young people has to be done really well; otherwise, I just feel like they're whiny or immature- "world is on fire NAAeeeEEEEeeee *peacuuu signnn*. Like when I watch Vanille or Hope in FFXIII in English at least and I just want them to get like Aerith and leave XD.. sometimes Snow too but I think I was just having an issue connecting to too many characters to it started a chain reaction lol. The English voice actors voice didn't seem to be the problem, as much of it was the content / mannerism was just annoying, for me, and generally disliked any scene that had them in it. To fair maybe the mannerisms felt better in Japanese, since there is a sort of cultural norm in how people act/talk that might feel less weird in another language (like skinship in Korean culture- watching it in the drama doesn't really set off any unusual flags, but you touch my leg here as either gender and I'm like "u wot??"), so in English I was disconnected and disinterested in them with a pinch cringe (other elements could have have an effect on disliking many characters too, like the corridors after corridors being draining, which left less acceptance/patience for the characters as the feeling of "get me out of this tunnel" grows). Sazh, Lightning, and Oerba ended up being my mains.

Anyway, just wanted to hopefully increase eye to eye in this thread lol. I've seen the increased computer stability as an interesting reason I've not thought about before, but wanted to describe that even under SE's own visual story telling it can be argued that having too wild of a glamour system can damage the visual narrative and that SE shows this by the fact they only use these particular outfits when it explicitly makes sense to (like if they took our main character nps to the beach or something). Not saying I'll get people to convert, but at least wanted increase the amount of people who think the idea is not evil or even if someone disagrees isn't wrought from something entirely illogical (SE clearly has visual codes in each of their games, even if they're not necessarily "realistic"- and to be honest the vibe of FF, the visual, musical, lore that influences design, classics like chocobo, moogle, jobs, these things make up more than half the reason why I play them, so it's pretty important to me that they 'direct and respect' their visuals by utilizing them as best they can to create the desired environmental experience and directives). Whoever is part of the setting team (art, music, lore directors) I want to give a big thumbs up in these games but also say your job is insanely important, at least to me (gameplay is important of course, ideally everything is perfect right? lol, but I don't feel the gameplay makes a FF game- you can tell a FF game just by looking at screenshots or hearing the music, you don't even need to play it to know, it's the world that says it's a FF game or not).

Not saying you said everyone was silly, and I know why you're not really for a toggle (but it seems like you wouldn't be bothered if from the start they had certain restrictions), but the people I respond to I respond to because I think we're actually going to have a discussion or at least a nice handshake (so high five-sy ;) lol), only rarely do I respond because it's like "no that's wrong and it needs to be said because you're misleading people".. which is usually because I feel misrepresented (like being told I said something I didn't say, and I can prove it), I can count those posts on one hand, even with my 7k post count xD. I assume you'll still be against but just thought we might shake hands and see each other, and I believe even if SE doesn't do something for this game that they might think about it next time. It's a neat system surely, so hopefully they'll pay it more mind, more features, more thought on consequences and benefits, try to make it breath their style within the player's hands (which will sometimes still fail no matter, but I think worth sitting down at the table and discussing- since I think visual narrative / 'presentation' really is a thing SE does well and under normal story circumstances takes very seriously, so I'm just asking they do that in general).

I'll let other people argue about other parts of the concepts, mostly just want to shore up that the idea of being concerned about visual narrative doesn't have to be anything negative or to help make examples (like immersion doesn't strictly relate to realistic, in FFX-2 if you accept the design premise then it'll be immersive, if you had however FFX and at the last 10% of FFX they suddenly changed the art rules to FFX-2 it could be immersion breaking, or worse if you went to like Witcher 3 graphics or something- that'd be super jarring lol).

this function can be used just as it can be misused. aaaa I'm already starting to see it. starting alliance roulette having a good day then someone says on the alliance chat omg u people look so plain or looking ugly in these robes.

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Originally Posted by Fayt1203

this function can be used just as it can be misused. aaaa I'm already starting to see it. starting alliance roulette having a good day then someone says on the alliance chat omg u people look so plain or looking ugly in these robes.

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I did cause someone to leave the raid due to out of place frog suit. I have to admit in a group with people wearing I guess lore friendly armor then you see a character in a frog suit I can see why they would find that annoying. Sucks they had to leave.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I did cause someone to leave the raid due to out of place frog suit. I have to admit in a group with people wearing I guess lore friendly armor then you see a character in a frog suit I can see why they would find that annoying. Sucks they had to leave.

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They didn't have to leave, they chose to leave. It does not matter.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

They didn't have to leave, they chose to leave. It does not matter.

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Overall I do not care much that they made the choice to leave, but in their eyes I can see how they had no other choice. I mean I do not care enough of their feelings to alter what I wear, but I do understand their view.

This has happened a few times, idk if it is because I rolled the the RP data center, but people seem to hate the frog suit. In the end would be nice if they had a feature that allowed for people to hide what they do not like to see. Rather have as many people enjoy their experience as possible without having to alter how I play or do things.

I know it is strange and hard for me to explain I care and do not care.

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Originally Posted by Fayt1203

this function can be used just as it can be misused. aaaa I'm already starting to see it. starting alliance roulette having a good day then someone says on the alliance chat omg u people look so plain or looking ugly in these robes.

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I gotta admit that this made me chuckle. A nice case of unintended consequences, where in an attempt to keep things lore friendly, the cutscene is has now you with your gear on and every one else in your party rockin' plain ascian robes.

Bonus points if it's a new player and the glam toggle was on by default.

While I understand some people wanting more serious outfits for others when trying to feel immersed in game, final fantasy is a game where tifa used a mini skirt, kefka was an actual clown, and kuja wore an actual thong. And they were all badasses.
One of the beautiful thing about FF world is that people can dress as they like, and other people in general won't even care.
Don't bring your real world prejudices in clothing to the game. It doesn't work like that. It's a world where the most powerful tank can be a small frail girl in a bikini and frog mask.

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Originally Posted by Fayt1203

this function can be used just as it can be misused. aaaa I'm already starting to see it. starting alliance roulette having a good day then someone says on the alliance chat omg u people look so plain or looking ugly in these robes.

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Nearly everything has potential for misuse. Not really a valid argument unless that misuse has direct legal issues (doxxing, outlawed porn, Gameplay affecting harrasment).
I could turn my settings down and laugh in chat at how everyone looks like a blocky mess, and what recourse does anyone have in that case? Same you would in your example: blacklist, ignore, report for harassment.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

I gotta admit that this made me chuckle. A nice case of unintended consequences, where in an attempt to keep things lore friendly, the cutscene is has now you with your gear on and every one else in your party rockin' plain ascian robes.

Bonus points if it's a new player and the glam toggle was on by default.

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This would be if they made it so everyone was in ascian robes which honestly is a horrible solution. EVERYONE wearing the same thing is just as jarring.
Current proposed options (elsewhere in this thread) are: Use level appropriate AF gear (50, 60 70 sets) , Use job appropriate gear (something iconic for the jobs, heavy armor for tanks , robes for casters, etc), Use Randomized gear sets and/or customization options to eliminate possibilities of misrepresentative screenshots.

these are all not difficult to do in theory using current knowledge of how graphic mods work and how the client conveys appearance information.

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Originally Posted by craybest

While I understand some people wanting more serious outfits for others when trying to feel immersed in game, final fantasy is a game where tifa used a mini skirt, kefka was an actual clown, and kuja wore an actual thong. And they were all badasses.
One of the beautiful thing about FF world is that people can dress as they like, and other people in general won't even care.
Don't bring your real world prejudices in clothing to the game. It doesn't work like that. It's a world where the most powerful tank can be a small frail girl in a bikini and frog mask.

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Please don't bring your real world world persistence logic into the game, every one of us has our own computer capable of rendering what we want to see and experience without affecting anyone elses experience (except for apparently the THOUGHT of the chance of appearing on someone elses screen differently).

The single player games let you bench particular characters if you happen to dislike specific party members. That isn't true for every character and some are mandatory for certain parts of the games...but there's still a measure of control in the hands of the player character. I'd also note that XIV is based mostly off of XII and both games generally take themselves seriously and comic relief is generally used in small doses. The bulk of it, in fact, is deliberately locked away behind an optional side quest - and the development team have stated that they're well aware that Hildibrand is not everybody's cup of tea.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The single player games let you bench particular characters if you happen to dislike specific party members. That isn't true for every character and some are mandatory for certain parts of the games...but there's still a measure of control in the hands of the player character. I'd also note that XIV is based mostly off of XII and both games generally take themselves seriously and comic relief is generally used in small doses. The bulk of it, in fact, is deliberately locked away behind an optional side quest - and the development team have stated that they're well aware that Hildibrand is not everybody's cup of tea.

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But that's every side quest in the game. Those are no different then any other sidequest that gives things to you. Cause that's how sidequest work. That isn't something to boost about unless you're trying to say XIV is leading the world in fair and optional sidequest. >.> In other words that's as much as a vaild point as the whole men in drag issue that is brought up by the topic holder and random people in and out the thread.