VIERA AND HROTHGAR COMPLAINT MEGATHREAD

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I do just hope that it will be worth the wait.
Because "Missing Gender" aside, Hrothgar have been pretty bare compared to everyone else, including the Viera.

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I can only see this new and pretty unexpected update as good news for female Hrothgar as well as males because it suggests they will not have the same problems Hrothgar did at launch. They've been very careful to keep male Viera up to date with females so I anticipate femHroths will launch in a state as complete as the completeness status of male Hrothgar at the end of Endwalker. That means they will have all the extra hairstyles Hrothgar have at that time and won't have any face-locked styles.

This patch male Hroths will get 6 new base game/modern aesthetics as well as the unlocking of all their currently face-locked hairs. This is a huge update with probably the #1 most requested Hrothgar fix and is going to quite literally double the amount of customization options the race has access to all in one patch.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That's the opposite of my point.

My point is, they made a choice:

1. Work on male Viera and female Hrothgar simultaneously so both are half-finished at the same time and fully finished at the same time, both released in 7.0.

2. Work entirely on one first, finish them, release them in 6.0. THEN work fully on the other for 7.0.

They went for the second choice so at least one of the two races could be complete sooner, and it's logical to have worked on the more popular race first so that more people could be happier sooner.

It's not "fair" in the sense that everyone has to suffer an equally long wait. But wanting other people to arbitrarily be as inconvenienced as yourself is also not fair in a different way.

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I disagree, I do belive it was wrong to release one without the other. Male Viera are here and there is nothing I can or would do about it. But I wholeheartedly belive that they should have confirmed their inclusion in 7.0 and release at the same time. The players would be happy for the confirmation and as long as no one says anything about one of the 2 races being done and waiting for the other. Then none would be wiser.
And for me at least and keep in mind this is very subjective. It was crushing to see male Viera and no female Hrothgar, seeing everyones reaction and being unable join in the fun, cause it was just that demoralising. And I get the same feeling whenever I see a male Viera. You got your toy, I got the half teared napkin with a faded IOU scribbled on it.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

And I get the same feeling whenever I see a male Viera. You got your toy, I got the half teared napkin with a faded IOU scribbled on it.

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The alternative is that you're both holding an IOU. Either way you don't have anything right now.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The alternative is that you're both holding an IOU. Either way you don't have anything right now.

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Indeed, or perhaps even the darker reality in which nobody has an IOU of any kind because they remained firm on their decision to leave Viera and Hrothgar they way they were. People forget that male Viera were not an inevitability - they were revealed as a rather big surprise after years rejecting the claim that they ever might exist and outright radio silence.

IMHO the choice they made was the best one given the circumstances. Yes, it meant one race was finished before the other (the easier race to create I'll remind everybody), but it also meant the IOU had something tangible to show for it. On one hand future femHroths got a ripped napkin, but they also got a promise with hard evidence that eventually team YoshiP will fulfill the promise they made because how could they not when male Viera are right in front of them?

This deep desire for other people to be as disadvantaged as them out of some bizarre sense of FOMO and embarrassment is nothing short of perplexing, hideous and petty, quite frankly. "You should have nothing because I have nothing" is just not how... anything works. It's preschool playground logic.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

I?
This deep desire for other people to be as disadvantaged as them out of some bizarre sense of FOMO and embarrassment is nothing short of perplexing, hideous and petty, quite frankly. "You should have nothing because I have nothing" is just not how... anything works. It's preschool playground logic.

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That's some mental gymnastics you pulled there, ngl.
So me saying that I would have prefered for both to come toghether means that I am in big FOMO and aparentley infentile? With your playground logic rebuttle.
Are you sure you aren't projecting?

As I said I am happy we got them. And there is nothing I could or would do about it. I am happy for the people who got them.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

That's some mental gymnastics you pulled there, ngl.
So me saying that I would have prefered for both to come toghether means that I am in big FOMO and aparentley infentile? With your playground logic rebuttle.
Are you sure you aren't projecting?

As I said I am happy we got them. And there is nothing I could or would do about it. I am happy for the people who got them.

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Mental gymnastics? XioRen posted exactly what I said multiple times yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

I can only see this new and pretty unexpected update as good news for female Hrothgar as well as males because it suggests they will not have the same problems Hrothgar did at launch. They've been very careful to keep male Viera up to date with females so I anticipate femHroths will launch in a state as complete as the completeness status of male Hrothgar at the end of Endwalker. That means they will have all the extra hairstyles Hrothgar have at that time and won't have any face-locked styles.

This patch male Hroths will get 6 new base game/modern aesthetics as well as the unlocking of all their currently face-locked hairs. This is a huge update with probably the #1 most requested Hrothgar fix and is going to quite literally double the amount of customization options the race has access to all in one patch.

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We dont actually know if hrothgar will get NEW hairstyles. The last time they responded to hrothgar outcry (6.2) we got...ears readded to 6.1 hair.
I believe every should simply expect hrothgar to now be 3 patches behind viera updates because they finally deigned to give hrothgar players a base character creation screen feature after 4 years.
I would love to be wrong but lets remember this teams track record of...remembering hrothgar exist.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

Mental gymnastics? XioRen posted exactly what I said multiple times yesterday.

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I don't remember being XioRen or having a track of everything he might or might not have said. And yes what else should I call that gross hyperbolic statement of yours twords my character? You don't know me.
I said I am sad at the fact that this races that were a "package deal" were not treated as such. One of them got their race completed + hairstyles + they are in front of Hrothgar with 2 patches. There is no news of female Hrothgar and no confirmation of when they will make an appearance. People say it's going to be 7.0, but there is no word or confirmation from SE for that. It's a she said, he said argument. It could be 7.0, it could be 11.0. They said that they will come eventually, did not give any time frame. That is why I am upset with this ordeal.
I have waited for 4 years, I don't want to wait for God knows how many more. We will have to see in 2 months what will happen. But I have no hopes for any form of news.

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Originally Posted by XianRo

We dont actually know if hrothgar will get NEW hairstyles. The last time they responded to hrothgar outcry (6.2) we got...ears readded to 6.1 hair.
I believe every should simply expect hrothgar to now be 3 patches behind viera updates because they finally deigned to give hrothgar players a base character creation screen feature after 4 years.
I would love to be wrong but lets remember this teams track record of...remembering hrothgar exist.

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Exactley this. If they add new hairstyles with the race hair unlock I would be ecstatic. But let's be honest, it's not very likely.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

Exactley this. If they add new hairstyles with the race hair unlock I would be ecstatic. But let's be honest, it's not very likely.

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we can rest assured we'll get whatever new Modern Aesthete they drop this patch unless christ forbid its genderlocked to women...also unless its Golbez hair bc they seem wildly reluctant to plop Important Male NPC hair like notice Hien isnt available but Lyse is and Gaius' hair isnt that spectacular looking that it could possibly take that long to model it on all races but its not available either.
The team has been good since 6.2 about making MAs available to hrothgar and viera but we wont know til patch notes drop weather we're getting a real update for hrothgar.
Im not counting unlocked racial hair because we've been here 4 years it is staggeringly embarrassing we didnt have that since the first time you booted up shb in 2019.

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Originally Posted by XianRo

we can rest assured we'll get whatever new Modern Aesthete they drop this patch unless christ forbid its genderlocked to women...also unless its Golbez hair bc they seem wildly reluctant to plop Important Male NPC hair like notice Hien isnt available but Lyse is and Gaius' hair isnt that spectacular looking that it could possibly take that long to model it on all races but its not available either.
The team has been good since 6.2 about making MAs available to hrothgar and viera but we wont know til patch notes drop weather we're getting a real update for hrothgar.
Im not counting unlocked racial hair because we've been here 4 years it is staggeringly embarrassing we didnt have that since the first time you booted up shb in 2019.

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I hope we will eventually get his hairstyle (for women too!) cause that was fabulous!

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Originally Posted by XianRo

We dont actually know if hrothgar will get NEW hairstyles. The last time they responded to hrothgar outcry (6.2) we got...ears readded to 6.1 hair.
I believe every should simply expect hrothgar to now be 3 patches behind viera updates because they finally deigned to give hrothgar players a base character creation screen feature after 4 years.
I would love to be wrong but lets remember this teams track record of...remembering hrothgar exist.

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This is such deja vu because before 6.3 you and I had this exact same interaction when I said 6.3 would bring the 6.1 male Viera batch to Hrothgar. Guess who was right? Hint: it was me. You got all 6 of them plus a few others new to everybody. You should be wary of telling others what they should expect because your expectations have been consistently wrong, wrong and wrong since Endwalker started bringing updates to these races.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

This is such deja vu because before 6.3 you and I had this exact same interaction when I said 6.3 would bring the 6.1 male Viera batch to Hrothgar. Guess who was right? Hint: it was me. You got all 6 of them plus a few others new to everybody. You should be wary of telling others what they should expect because your expectations have been consistently wrong, wrong and wrong since Endwalker started bringing updates to these races.

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ok, tiny detail. In 6.3, they didnt have to hotglue ears back onto hrothgar heads. But we were then 2 patches behind because the team had to put themselves in the hospital fixing their mistake in the first place.
The expectation here, for me, is that 6.4 will finally unlock hair from facetypes for hrothgar and thats it. Apart from whatever new MA drops in 6.45, we will otherwise thusly be THREE patches behind viera, we will not get viera 6.2 hair options, because of another mistake they have to fix for hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

I hope we will eventually get his hairstyle (for women too!) cause that was fabulous!

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which hair, hiens? I was hoping that would be the reward for upgrading sanctuary in 6.3 but we got a tunic from Sadu instead.

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Originally Posted by XianRo

ok, tiny detail. In 6.3, they didnt have to hotglue ears back onto hrothgar heads. But we were then 2 patches behind because the team had to put themselves in the hospital fixing their mistake in the first place.
The expectation here, for me, is that 6.4 will finally unlock hair from facetypes for hrothgar and thats it. Apart from whatever new MA drops in 6.45, we will otherwise thusly be THREE patches behind viera, we will not get viera 6.2 hair options, because of another mistake they have to fix for hrothgar.

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You actually said something VERY similar back then. You were just as confident as you are now and had equally flimsy glass-half-empty evidence. Be sure to think of me when Hroths get the hair unlock and the 6 hairstyles from Viera's 6.2 patch, okay? :)

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Originally Posted by Caro178

You actually said something VERY similar back then. You were just as confident as you are now and had equally flimsy glass-half-empty evidence. Be sure to think of me when Hroths get the hair unlock and the 6 hairstyles from Viera's 6.2 patch, okay? :)

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Well being totally honest the 6.2 hair options suck anyway (at least on men I think fviera got better Universal options) and Id much rather get the 6.3 update bc Styled for Hire and the Roxas-adjacent hair but that require us to not be 2 patches behind.
Also Idk why you seem to think I dont want to wrong. I'd love to be wrong! Im just telling fellow hrothgar "hey remember when they royally screwed us and it took a whole patch to sort that out and we got none of the new stuff viera did in 6.1 for 6.2." but like ok

At the moment hrothgars are in a situation, where they are constantly at least one step behind in customisation. When they finally started to pay attention to hroths Square decided to cut corners and were "surprised" and had to take a step back. The choise to use defult haircuts is something that should have been there from the start or done with the first set of haircuts. At this point the expectation is more.

Now, I don't expect them to stop making things for viera, but adressing properly the situation in LLs would be nice. Even one major hroth update would be nice. Explaining the situation with "It's hard" feels like a cop-out.

I'm patiently waiting for Y'shtola's moddish hair to be added to Viera
It's a paid for hair that imo should have been added already :(

I don't wear hats and am waiting to finally get this hair on viera so I can fanta into one and feel complete

Also, I hope hroth and viera get better hairstyles- I personally think many of the hairs given to BOTH look pretty bad.
Many of the vanilla hairs (hairs that existed for other races 1st) make Viera heads look huge.
Like you could park an airship on it.

I wish the census would have been to give Viera and Hroth their own original hairstyles expanded upon as well as getting those ingame reward hairs and paid for hairs
Rather than only getting vanilla options which aren't fitted well.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

I'm patiently waiting for Y'shtola's moddish hair to be added to Viera
It's a paid for hair that imo should have been added already :(

I don't wear hats and am waiting to finally get this hair on viera so I can fanta into one and feel complete

Also, I hope hroth and viera get better hairstyles- I personally think many of the hairs given to BOTH look pretty bad.
Many of the vanilla hairs (hairs that existed for other races 1st) make Viera heads look huge.
Like you could park an airship on it.

I wish the census would have been to give Viera and Hroth their own original hairstyles expanded upon as well as getting those ingame reward hairs and paid for hairs
Rather than only getting vanilla options which aren't fitted well.

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I think Y'Shtola's hair would look great on Viera! But I do think that unlocking all Mog hair at once would have been bad since it would have meant that you had to pay irl money to have hair on the races that had nothing for 2 years (at that point). But if they do it now, I don't think would cause the same issue. Even if I would want to see Windcaller added this expansion.

As for the original hair for both Viera and Hroth. I would have like to see it, but it was very unlikely. They would have to make those for female Viera, male Viera, and all diferent faces of Hrothgar (cause they there hair locked to the face). And more than that, the rest of the players would have started to want this treatment as well. And SE would have probably pulled the plug on all hair.

The reason so many vanilla hairs are looking so bad on viera is simply cause they are so thin, while the original hairs are very fluffy. That is why the best styles for viera and a lot of other races, are the full volume ones.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

Not to get everybody's hope up for nothing, but I believe they gave a sneak peak of Hrothgar hairstyles being unlocked across faces (or at least more being made universally available across the 4 faces.) They previewed a face 3 Hrothgar with the shoulder-length hairstyle currently locked to face 2. You can see the dramatically curled, upward tilted ears that are unique to face 3. Picture courtesy of a Hrothgar player on Twitter. Grain of salt until the patch of course but I'm optimistic.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv7xLG6W...jpg&name=small

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I'd like to open a discussion on this, because I think this may be the hairstyle face 3 already has, but the headgear looks to have some feathers or leaves attached to the circlet that makes the hairstyle look fuller on the sides. I think the widows peak matches the existing hairstyle perfectly. I don't want anyone to be disappointed or take this for granted, so do you think this makes any sense?

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Originally Posted by Starshower

I'd like to open a discussion on this, because I think this may be the hairstyle face 3 already has, but the headgear looks to have some feathers or leaves attached to the circlet that makes the hairstyle look fuller on the sides. I think the widows peak matches the existing hairstyle perfectly. I don't want anyone to be disappointed or take this for granted, so do you think this makes any sense?

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It's not very clear, but I think the first image doesn't appear to be wearing anything, but for the secong it is possible to be a circlet. I am not next to a computer to check but I am fairly certain that the hair is from face 2...
Honestly even if it is just a circlet, if it can give the ilusion of being a different hairstyle, it might give some value for glam. But that is just my opinion.

As for the disappointment, I am honestley expecting nothing from SE. Not even the hair that Viera got 2 patches ago. It is better to expect absolutley nothing and be pleasantly surprised if they do, rather than be fully convinced we would get our hair unlocked + the moder aesthetics, and be given none, or just a few. One of my friends said it best: expect a 3, be pleasantly surprised if it's a 4. From SE I expect a 0 and will be pleasantly surprised by a 1.

Watching the live letter, it's pretty disappointing that the feedback about Viera and Hroth headgear gets thrown right in the trash and brand new gear gets made that they can't use for crafted, tomes, and raids.

It still does not inspire much confidence at all about the 7.0 graphical overhaul if they can't put even a slight bit of effort into newly developed gear to work with their existing races.

Patch note drop confirmed the six 6.2 Viera hairstyles for Hrothgar as well as two of the six old-new ones Viera will be getting. They look really good and I'll probably use this braid for a while assuming nothing else of interest is added. There was nothing in the patch notes about any brand new styles for all races, sadly.

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/61...png?1684483058

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/61...png?1684483058

Also: nothing in the patch notes about changes to Hrothgar's character creation, but there is a section about character creation and this would not be the first time they've silently made changes without including them in patch notes. The same thing happened when they gave Hrothgars access to change their hairstyles without the use of a Fantasia in 6.1 and it caused a lot of debate about whether or not the new customization options would be free like they are for everybody else or locked behind the same paywall.

More than 250 pages~

Have my bump!

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Originally Posted by Caro178

Patch note drop confirmed the six 6.2 Viera hairstyles for Hrothgar as well as two of the six old-new ones Viera will be getting. They look really good and I'll probably use this braid for a while assuming nothing else of interest is added. There was nothing in the patch notes about any brand new styles for all races, sadly.

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/61...png?1684483058

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/61...png?1684483058

Also: nothing in the patch notes about changes to Hrothgar's character creation, but there is a section about character creation and this would not be the first time they've silently made changes without including them in patch notes. The same thing happened when they gave Hrothgars access to change their hairstyles without the use of a Fantasia in 6.1 and it caused a lot of debate about whether or not the new customization options would be free like they are for everybody else or locked behind the same paywall.

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Was hoping for the plait :(…oh well…

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

Was hoping for the plait :(…oh well…

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This is just two of the styles and neither of them is a Modern Aesthetics. There will be 4 others like always. Hope for the plait definitely isn't gone yet. I'm confident if it's not in this patch it'll be in 6.5 because it's one of the last remaining extremely popular hairstyles alongside Form and Function. Don't lose hope!

I am glad this seems to imply they may have skipped a few styles, however. Not that I hate them, but there was a batch of incredibly same-y haircuts in a row and the fact that the braid is included means a few of those same-y short cuts were probably excluded.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmM2efgX...jpg&name=large

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Originally Posted by Starshower

I'd like to open a discussion on this, because I think this may be the hairstyle face 3 already has, but the headgear looks to have some feathers or leaves attached to the circlet that makes the hairstyle look fuller on the sides. I think the widows peak matches the existing hairstyle perfectly. I don't want anyone to be disappointed or take this for granted, so do you think this makes any sense?

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The headgear has been previewed in better clarity already and it does not feature any feathers. The floof is only coming from the hair. I think there's no doubt this is a picture of a phase 3 Hroth with face 2 hair. Whether or not these changes are being implemented this patch I don't know, but I take this as confirmation that it is a priority for them. It wouldn't even be the first time they've shadow dropped changes without making a big fuss over them.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwfaeN7a...g&name=360x360

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fwfal-ia...png&name=small

Not-Auron, not-Hien, and not-Gladio hairstyles, someday you'll be mine

The Squall hair actually works on Hrothgar, it feels a bit natural.

i hope they add the windcaller style for viera

I can't wait to wear the new raid gear with headgear...
https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/61...png?1684483058
Oh wait, I forgot SE doesn't really care about Viera or Hroths and just keeps doing this every patch. At least we got a couple hastily ported hairstyles that give us a 5head! Totally makes up for it!
It'll be really fun when 7.0 hits, hats aren't fixed, more unwearable hats are released for job gear, and on top of that every pre-SHB race will have their textures and models updated to be better than Viera and Hroth.

Not defending the headgear situation, but the hairstyles chosen look completely fine. They don't give massive foreheads that are disproportionate to the other races. They look the same on us as they do everybody else. The male hairstyle in particular suits that character really well and I see it being a fairly popular choice.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fwg1wMPX...png&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fwg1fflW...g&name=360x360

For the record I've seen Viera and Hrothgar sporting every single new hair addition at some point even the ones I personally dislike.

Speaking to hats I feel like part of the reason hrothgar at least cant wear anything...you'd want to wear (No yoshi I do not to wear full helms ever for any reason I like my gars face let me wear fashionable chapeaus) is because hroth were designed in the most amazingly terrible way you could design a race.
The hairlock is known but the hairlock was an issue because for reason no man or woman or god himself could ever begin to parse the design team thought to make every hrothgars headshape marginally different from each other. You cant really tell in game but this is what I know from reading some m*dders posts. He hroth face had a slightly different headshape that I cant fathom why you would ever design a race that way. "Oh well theyre all different species haha" ok but like...you deliberately screwed a player race out of not only a whole gearslot but also its own racial hair. Thats unbelievable I cant understand why you would hurt players like that.

So now (we assume based on one 144p printout) we can assume going forward for hrothgar anyway hats will begin to work. Well Id like to anyway. Id adore 6.5 getting here, going to my dresser and seeing some hats actually fit my dangt head. Like imagine if 6.5 gear previews showed hroth wearing a hat that also had a hair model omg I'd finally simp for the devs.

But I EXPECT hats wont work til femgar get here in 7.0, and hroth and viera will both bw awed and amazed at getting an entire new expansions worth of hats that finally work.

As for viera I assume hats dont work bc they dont wanna bother with ears (see like 50% of miqote headpieces) but then viera can wear like the Crypt hoods or the Heroes Gauntlet/Ktisis edgelord helms with their ootseycutesy wabbit ears out looking totally inappropriate in an edgy glam so who actually knows

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Originally Posted by XianRo

As for viera I assume hats dont work bc they dont wanna bother with ears (see like 50% of miqote headpieces) but then viera can wear like the Crypt hoods or the Heroes Gauntlet/Ktisis edgelord helms with their ootseycutesy wabbit ears out looking totally inappropriate in an edgy glam so who actually knows

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It seems to be an issue with hair rather than ears. Any hats that do work are ones that fully conceal the character's hair, or else small ones that don't afffect it at all. Anything that needs to turn off only the top half of the hair model doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It seems to be an issue with hair rather than ears. Any hats that do work are ones that fully conceal the character's hair, or else small ones that don't afffect it at all. Anything that needs to turn off only the top half of the hair model doesn't work.

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You're right of course. According to someone who did a hat mod for viera the "flag" ingame to make hats appear is turned off.
I would ask "why cant we just use hats with any nonracial hair we've gotten?" but Im sure you cant create separate flags that are dependent on players hair. They need to make behatted hair models for base hroth and viera hair in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

Patch note drop confirmed the six 6.2 Viera hairstyles for Hrothgar as well as two of the six old-new ones Viera will be getting. They look really good and I'll probably use this braid for a while assuming nothing else of interest is added. There was nothing in the patch notes about any brand new styles for all races, sadly.

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/61...png?1684483058

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/61...png?1684483058

Also: nothing in the patch notes about changes to Hrothgar's character creation, but there is a section about character creation and this would not be the first time they've silently made changes without including them in patch notes. The same thing happened when they gave Hrothgars access to change their hairstyles without the use of a Fantasia in 6.1 and it caused a lot of debate about whether or not the new customization options would be free like they are for everybody else or locked behind the same paywall.

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Finally, some good hairs for Viera that don't give you guys an aeroplane landing forehead! Those hairs for Hrothgar look good too, but no news on the unlocking of the racial hair. I will hold out hope and choose to believe we will just get the hairs Viera got last time without any unlocks. I hope to be wrong, but I would rather not get my hopes up.

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Originally Posted by XianRo

You're right of course. According to someone who did a hat mod for viera the "flag" ingame to make hats appear is turned off.
I would ask "why cant we just use hats with any nonracial hair we've gotten?" but Im sure you cant create separate flags that are dependent on players hair. They need to make behatted hair models for base hroth and viera hair in the first place.

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There are multiple hairstyles of the previous races that as soon as they put certain hats on, the hair changes form or gets tucked in and you only see the fringes for example, so I can’t see why they won’t do the same with us.

So I was scrolling through the patch notes and... OMG IS THAT A HROTHGAR WITH A HAT?????

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/04...png?1684483058

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

So I was scrolling through the patch notes and... OMG IS THAT A HROTHGAR WITH A HAT?????

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/04...png?1684483058

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It's the WAR 89 gear, I believe that one always worked on Hrothgar?

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Originally Posted by Yencat

It's the WAR 89 gear, I believe that one always worked on Hrothgar?

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Yup, the helmet that made us think things would be better in EW, ohhh how innocent we were :P