Please implement something to teach players how to play

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Originally Posted by Zarkovitch

When you boost a character. You should get how to play this job 101. Because, it going affect community when endwalkers is out. I remember when shadowbringers release there was a person who doesnt know how to use shirk as tank on a extreme primal. I was malding on my screen.

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SE can't create a "how to play [job] 101" tutorial in-game because that's going to change every time they do job updates. That would end up a significant waste of development time on ephemeral content that frequently needs to be replaced instead of spending it on lasting content.

Players who want to learn can go online to look up the latest guides. They can start with the job guides posted on Lodestone for the basics then move to more in depth player created guides.

If a player isn't doing that, it's their choice. SE can't control their choices.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

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I don't think it is hardcore to want to do all that. I think it is more elitist to tell other players to play to the fullest in content that is not design for them to need to do it. And to some people in the thread saying the MSQ should have gatekeep players who are not good at the game.


I also find it amusing that in a pug settings, players consider it a respect issue that players might not want to use certain skills or like how the class plays so adjust it to be more enjoyable. If it was a LS, or a custom made group that has a set rules or standards. Sure people have every right to say hey..you don't meet the standards. In a guild like settings, the leaders has full control and has every right to tell people he or she is leading that they are not doing well enough.


The roulette pays the players for doing easy design content, and pays players to "carry" bads or for bads to stick with it. That is it. Wanting it to change is just silly because most players are bad, and are ok with being bad because they are having fun. If someone has an issue with them being bad in a pug settings. That is not a issue the bads should fix, but themselves. The bads will keep having fun and are perfectly ok with ruining other players fun in that settings because that settings is design around them to just relax and enjoy the ride.

Personally, I feel like the people typing into the void about needing others to improve is a lost cause. The game needs to force players to improve by simply getting more difficult. Difficult enough to where it’s not so easy for others to be carried. In all the other mmorpg that people mentioned, these games tend to keep people engage because the game overall increases in difficulty and content stays that way for longer periods of time. No amount of forced training wheels/session is going to get rid of players who uses only a 1/4 of their kit.

There’s a lot of people who “get gud “ when new content comes out and we’re all under geared taking on the new challenge. But once we out gear the place, start being able to skip mechanics and what not… there’s no reason to stay on that level of engagement. The whole game gets mad easy and people get used to it. This is why players fish for CT raids because their the fastest and easiest. These type of players dominate the game. But imagine if SE takes the time to retune everything to where even CT was just as punishing as the latest raids? People would not only “get gud” but also have a reason to stay that way. SE would have to be willing to take the risk to make this game more engaging with jobs not being so streamlined easy mode and the game would need to overall stay being difficult. Otherwise, what’s the point?

Extremes and higher content as of right now, is the only content that makes sense for people to care more but anything below that? It’s not worth all 62 pages of people venting over a dead horse. SE would have to change this game drastically for anything to happen and be willing to gamble on how many will stay and how many new players that prefers a harder game, will hop in.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I don't think it is hardcore to want to do all that. I think it is more elitist to tell other players to play to the fullest in content that is not design for them to need to do it.

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Openly admits to thinking it is elitist to want your peers to try their best simply because content can be cleared solo in 1h what would take 4 people 20-25 minutes.
And I'm the toxic one because I don't take being disrespected in a multi-player game lying down.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Openly admits to thinking it is elitist to want your peers to try their best simply because content can be cleared solo in 1h what would take 4 people 20-25 minutes.
And I'm the toxic one because I'm intentionally being disrespected in a multi-player game and not taking it lying down.

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Correct, that content is design around players like them, and they are having fun even if it takes you longer. You get a reward for dealing with said players. Wanting them to play better is just silly. A failed group is not that big of a deal, and I think it is very toxic to try and force a standard in a pug group that the game makes. If it was a group you made. You have every right to do it.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Correct, that content is design around players like them

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The content is not designed around players like them at all. The only content designed around players like them is msq questline. If you duplicated them to fill an entire light or full party they would not be able to clear any content at all.

I do not get a reward for dealing with these players I get a reward for playing the game. It is toxic of you as a fellow human to purposefully disrespect everyone around you in the name of your own fun when it is a multi player game.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

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I don't think players have to play at their fullest, just at a level where they can clear content on their own or with players playing at a similar skill level. If they don't, other players then have to pick up their slack and play "to the fullest" to clear content.

If players are unwilling to use certain skills... for fun(?) then I don't know why they can't just make their own "fun" parties in the party finder instead, frankly. It's not fair to other players. My rotation is a reflex for me, so maybe I just don't get it. I don't feel like it takes much effort to do so either, it's like turning off the light, or locking the door.

Honestly, I don't think the roulette pays players enough, but I digress. :p

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

The content is not designed around players like them at all. The only content designed around players like them is msq questline. If you duplicated them to fill an entire light or full party they would not be able to clear any content at all.

I do not get a reward for dealing with these players I get a reward for playing the game. It is toxic of you as a fellow human to purposefully disrespect everyone around you in the name of your own fun when it is a multi player game.

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Hm I don't think that is true. but we have no real way to know. In fact, i think DF groups can be done with bad players, and im sure it has been done with a full group of these types of players. We really can't say one way or another..but by what people are saying in this group. They want players to get better because the content is so brain dead easy.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Hm I don't think that is true. but we have no real way to know.

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The game is a MMORPG, the expectation is that you will have fun with peers and grow together.
To intentionally make things harder for your fellow man means you not only are disrespecting them and anyone else around you while you are doing said sabotage but you are also a troll. It is clear and cut. Intent matters.
If you played this game you would know.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Correct, that content is design around players like them, and they are having fun even if it takes you longer. You get a reward for dealing with said players. Wanting them to play better is just silly. A failed group is not that big of a deal, and I think it is very toxic to try and force a standard in a pug group that the game makes. If it was a group you made. You have every right to do it.

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It's not elitist to not want to take an hour to do a duty when the average time through a dungeon is 30 minutes.

It's rude to expect all players to cater to your style of play. Be it super high skill level or expecting a carry because you know you aren't performing anywhere near at your best.

Willfully ignoring skills because they don't look cool or fit your character RP wise is not playing at one's best. A player willfully ignoring skills or changing up the rotation because they need to in order to not die due to lack of knowledge is playing at their current best

A Black Mage staying in Ice because they're RP'ing their character as someone who doesn't use Fire and expecting players to carry them through content so they don't have to break character is being rude.

A Black Mage only doing 2 Fire IV's instead of 3 to ensure they keep Enochian up because they don't quite have everything down with their skills to reduce movement to do it perfectly is playing at their best.

When you sign up for the Duty Finder you agree to be a team player.

Part of being a team player is compromising when differences in play style come up.

In the Duty Finder you're going to have players who want things to go as quick as possible. You're also going to have the Ice Mages and other such players who prefer carries (henceforth referred to collectively as Ice Mages).

Those that want things to go as quickly as possible accept that a run may take 5-10 minutes longer due to not everyone performing optimally.

Those that want to willfully play sub-optimally for RP or aesthetic reasons need to step it up a bit because the other players in the dungeon likely don't want to take an hour to get through the content and they should respect the other player's time. Especially when queuing in for 4 man content.

Players at both extremes who do not wish to compromise should use the PF to find players who are willing to carry them or are willing to play optimally.